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Tragic avalanche news

  • Larry_Trotter
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18 years 2 months ago #179629 by Larry_Trotter
Replied by Larry_Trotter on topic Re: Tragic avalanche news
About a thousand years ago... I was an anti-submarine warfare tech in the U.S. Navy.   We had gear that would detect metal objects under the water:  MAD (Magnetic Anomoly Detection) gear.  If the guys were carrying a cast iron stove with them... might work.   And we had "Sniffers" that would follow diesel fumes across the ocean.  A fine dog could do that kind of work.  Although I have always been fascinated with the idea of electronic sniffers using modern electronics and computers.


I remember last year... around Salt Lake City, they were developing the use of a helicopter with a dipping antenna  that allowed for rapid beacon search.... seems like it had a range of about 500 feet.

Anyway... there is a system for aerial search being put forth:

Helicopter Device Saves Time for Buried Avalanche Victims www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=707937

The video:   
real.ksl.com/video/slc/sid_video/707937.ram

Avalanche Victim Search by Helicopter Using the Barryvox VS 2000 PRO EXT
Technical Information for Setup and Use
  www.girsberger-elektronik.ch/media/documents/HEA_ADE.pdf

Price List: www.girsberger-elektronik.ch/media/documents/PP_PRINT_0708.pdf

Range = 180 Meters www.girsberger-elektronik.ch/media/documents/TES_DSE.pdf

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  • snoqpass
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18 years 2 months ago #179632 by snoqpass
Replied by snoqpass on topic Re: Tragic avalanche news

It may depend on the make, but I'll bet it just gets really weak, and probably not in a linear way.

Are there and does ski patrol have access to ultra sensitive 457kHz receivers? Seems something above and beyond a consumer-grade avi transceivers might help in this sort of scenario. Also, does anyone close to the rescue/recovery know if the Recco system was used in this incident? I know those can be mounted on a helicopter, and there is a good chance these guys had some kind of Recco patch on their gear somewhere. I know the Alpental patrol has one.

Now that the search has been called off, will SAR be releasing any more details regarding the precise areas they were looking in? More skiers are sure to enter that area this season, it might help to tell us to keep an eye out if we end up skiing there.

I don't know if they used a Recco for this incident. A few years ago I located a practice transciever that the batteries had gone dead with one. But I had a pretty good idea where to look.

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  • korup
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18 years 2 months ago #179634 by korup
Replied by korup on topic Re: Tragic avalanche news





Range = 180 Meters www.girsberger-elektronik.ch/media/documents/TES_DSE.pdf


Scary! Even a pro-model system has a range of only 180 m? Given the size and topographic complexity of the search area, probably not too much help in this case?

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  • Larry_Trotter
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18 years 2 months ago #179641 by Larry_Trotter
Replied by Larry_Trotter on topic Re: Tragic avalanche news
What you would probably want is a Navy EP-3E ARIES...  based on the P3-Orion.   
www.globalsecurity.org/intell/systems/ep-3.htm

EP-3Es detect, interpret and report tactically significant communication and radar signals. With sensitive receivers and high-gain dish antennas, the EP-3E can exploit a wide range of electronic emissions from deep within enemy territory.



Transceiver Range has been discussed and has been determined to be not as important as other factors:

www.backcountryaccess.com/english/resear...s_NextGeneration.pdf

[size=10pt].....Receive range could very well be an
anachronistic product attribute with the changing
demographics of the modern transceiver marketplace.

The demand for increased receive range
was originally stimulated by Swiss search and rescue
teams. For this application, in which there is
usually no "last seen point," longer range is valuable
in identifying or ruling out terrain features to
be searched. These operations are almost exclusively
body searches: nearly 100 percent of completely
buried avalanche survivors are rescued by
members of their own party (Brugger et. al., 1997).
In this case, search speed is not of great importance,
except perhaps to minimize the exposure of
the rescuing party. But in today's market, comprised
primarily of recreationalists, searchers are
more likely to be members of the victim's own
group seeking to make a live recovery. In this case,
search speed and ease of use in a panic situation
are of ultimate importance—not range.[/size]

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  • climbinghighest
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18 years 2 months ago #179642 by climbinghighest
Replied by climbinghighest on topic Re: Tragic avalanche news


One spec that we heard is that a beacon with fresh battteries sends out a signal for 200 hours at 70 degrees.  We were curious how reliable that is, how the duration would change at 32 degrees, and after 200 hours, does it stop, or is it just really weak?


Normal alkaline batteries working at or below freezing temps will operate at about 20% efficiency. If my memory serves me correct. So that would cut that 200 hours into about 40 hours. The colder the battery gets the more worthless it gets. Most batteries are like this depending on the type. For instance lithiums work much better in the cold. However they fail also, I noticed my cellphone always dies in the mountains even if I fully charge it before I hit the trail, once I get back to the car or warm it up, it comes back to life.

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  • Eric Lindahl
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18 years 2 months ago #179649 by Eric Lindahl
Replied by Eric Lindahl on topic Re: Tragic avalanche news
This is common sense and practice but I thought I would mention it. Keep your transeiver inside your insulating layers to keep it toasty, the batteries will stay warm for some time when you bring it out to search. I also keep my cell phone in my pant pocket next to my thigh for the same reason.

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