Ski crampons & whippet-pole... absolutely needed?

I think the cool thing about backcountry skiing/ski mountaineering is distinct the lack of rules. All your buddy's advice is right for them and may not work the best for someone else. <br>I own all the tools you mention: self arrest grip ski poles (I use two), ski crampons, boot crampons and ice axe, and use them all, at times.<br><br>As you gain more experience you will get better at judging which to carry on a particular climb or tour. Fact is, there are conditions for which the use of each is ideal.<br><br>Some examples:<br>An age old argument is: "don't carry boot crampons or an ice axe because I don't want to ski bulletproof ice. The kind of snow I ski you can ski or boot up without crampons".<br>Well, that works good if you're starting at noon and yo-yoing the same 1,000 foot slope all afternoon. On the other hand if you're out on a day pass from the retirement home to ski the sw chutes on Mt Adams top to bottom in a day, you might need to start while the snow's still hard to get to the top by the time it turns to creamy corn.<br><br>Here's another: "(most often heard from someone that doesn't own ski crampons) If I need ski crampons I'll just load up and boot up".<br>Obviously, if you don't have ski crampons that solution seems like the next best option to me. But, being old, I prefer to stand on one ski and drag the other if there's any possibility of getting the job done without loading up. Visualize a fairly steep slope with about an inch or two of fresh snow or corn on top of a hard layer that boots would not penetrate without a couple of hard kicks.<br>The ski edges keep sliding on the hard layer and there's not enough of a surface layer to gat any platform for the skis. Traversing this slope while climbing is the most efficient route to your destination. Best tool? For me it's ski crampons. they dig in an hold the ski edges nicely while you traverse across the slope. <br>I think ski crampons work best in this type of condition; another is the conditions that Pete A and Sam mention above. And as Double E points out if you climb at a lower angle so you don't need the climbing blocks both fritschi's and dynafits (I have used both) work great.

I think we have something of a consensus here - as Ron, Sam and Pete have mentioned, there are times when ski crampons are a boon, specifically early spring frozen corn and windpack or wind-scoured conditions where the surface snow is too hard for edges to bite but not strong or consistent enough to support ski boots. In either case you'll make much faster progress than booting with crampons on.<br><br>That said, I've often wanted but neglected to bring them and gotten to the top anyway.<br><br>IMO, both Fritschi and Dynafit ski crampons cease being effective when on the highest climbing setting due to lack of insertion depth of the crampon teeth - they both need boot pressure from above to push the crampons past the ski base. Better to leave the heels on the middle level and pick a mellower angle to skin at. You might look into a ski-mounted crampon like the SKALP, which doesn't retract and gives you the same insertion regardless of heel height.

I've not a great deal to add, especially as Greg and Ron summarized the issue rather well. To specifically address your subject heading, though, my view is the answer is "no". <br><br>I too have all the above. I rarely bring my ski crampons, and when I do I most often don't use them. This not to say they're not useful, but I wouldn't say by any means they're absolutely needed. Occasionally I wish I had them along, for example, but that alone has never been the deal-breaker on a trip. <br><br>Now, if you're trying to justify the purchase to the holder of the checkbook, my opinion can be flexible...

You can buy the Fritschi crampon from me if you want!! I have a pair that sit in my closet all year long....I would be interested in a SKI MOUNTED crampon that fit skis with a waist of 90mm or greater. None that I know of fit this description...Do any of you gearheads know of one in production?

I didn't have ski crampons until a couple years ago, when I was finally able to get some in Europe that worked for my tele skis. They're most useful in steep traverses on hard snow, since they let you pick the angle of ascent you want and execute steep kick turns without worrying much about your skins slipping out. Some times it is faster to just boot pack straight up the hill such conditions, but the ski crampons keep the skis off my back and are a faster switch than putting skis on my pack. It&#8217;s just a nice option to have.<br><br>I use a S'kalp ski crampon (A Petzl product?) and wonder if it could be an option for Fritschi owners. They attach right to the ski, though you do have to install a mounting plate, which adds a bit of weight and could complicate things - I'm not 100% sure it fits under the main bar that holds the Fritschis together. It&#8217;s worth a look. I think Marmmot may carry them.<br><br>As RonJ says, its all personal preference. Making your own call on these little details is half the fun. I hope you find a good solution.<br>

I'm surprised how down you guys are on ski crampons. I consider ski crampons extremely valuable. They are one of the most useful tools to ski mountaineers right after Dynafits, Red Bull and anything AT Apostle has invented. I want to keep my skins on as long as possible, ski crampons allow for that. Some may suggest with good technique ski crampons are extraneous. This is hogwash. There is no way you can skin as comfortable and efficiently on steep, icy, exposed slope as an experienced skinner who is effectively using ski crampons. Ski crampons are very common in Europe. Generally in Spring and Summer is when mine come out.<br>