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Anybody know anything about this accident, or othe

  • hankj
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20 years 1 month ago - 20 years 1 month ago #173836 by hankj
okay no Ad Hominem replies please -- not advocating anything just raising an issue.<br><br>And what a tragedy -- the picture of the guy who passed with his new baby is too sad for words.<br><br><br><br>You release a ski area from liability when you buy your ticket, but they are still liable for damages caused by gross negligence.  If they (meaning any employee), for instance, erect a white wall in the middle of a busy run in a white-out and you break your nose running into it, a court would almost certainly award damages.  A ski area is a dangerous place, but the management is expected to not do anything to make it more dangerous.<br><br>If the ski area is closing in reaction to these burials, and posting new info on their website warning about and giving procedures for dealing with a set of hazards after the fact, should they have been expected to do so ahead of time, given that they are experts in interpretting these conditions?  And if not before both burials after the first?<br><br>Or no? Do you think their lack of action doesn't constitute an unreasonable negligence?<br><br>I think probably not ... it would be tough for any ski area to operate if they were liable for a multitude of specific warnings about these kinds of hazards (super-icey days, bad tree-well days, snow is really sticky today and covered some otherwise noticable rocks).  But I've seen hazards much smaller than a big moat inbounds completely roped off, even at places outside the US ...<br><br>I'm not arguing about the moral responsibility of any involved party, just wondering if anyone had an opinion about whether ski areas are accountable for being proactive in heading off forseeable problems related to unusual natural hazards.<br><br>Again don't get me wrong -- I'm all for personal responsibilty even if someone is charging you to use their facilities. It just seems a bit weird to me how ski areas can still operate with many people dying every year while privately owned skateboard parks, where people get hurt but don't die, basically no longer exist.<br>

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  • garyabrill
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20 years 1 month ago #173856 by garyabrill
Replied by garyabrill on topic Re: Anybody know anything about this accident, or

If the ski area is closing in reaction to these burials, and posting new info on their website warning about and giving procedures for dealing with a set of hazards after the fact, should they have been expected to do so ahead of time, given that they are experts in interpretting these conditions? And if not before both burials after the first?

<br><br>I'm not a lawyer and have a friend who often acts as a defense attorney for ski areas/etc. and to top that, I'm currrently sitting in front of a computer is Seattle, but....the ski area must be concerned unless one assumes that the ski area is acting on morals. It would seem to me that a ski area doing it's usual business would have little liability as long as it did it's work to a reasonable, comparative or historic standard; however...I wonder if that would be the case if the ski area has fostered or promoted a culture of the steep and deep with perhaps minimal precautions - don't know if that is the case, but it is something to ponder. Guiding is the same way - reasonable standard. But there are some who think that running a business has certain inherent risks. It depends on how one defines inherent risk - I personally believe inherent risk is something one could not be expected to perceive or expect. Now this is just my opinion, but, the other type of risk would seem to be Acknowledged or Anticipated risk - something one should reasonably be expected to foresee as a possibility and yet has perhaps chosen to ignore. (Made an insufficient or poor estimation of Hazard and consequences, or chosen to accept the consequences voluntarily).<br><br>I don't think what I am saying is all that novel, just common sense; but speaking about this kind of logic or reasonable response in a custodial situation was enough to have a hacker attack my computer and embed a number of vile programs and applications while on TTips.<br><br>Were it me, as a guide, or as a ski area, that is how I would look at it in defining "appropriate" decision-making behavior. How this relates to Baker, I don't know. I don't have sufficient information.

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  • Gary_Yngve
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20 years 1 month ago #173858 by Gary_Yngve
Replied by Gary_Yngve on topic Re: Anybody know anything about this accident, or
Another treewell fatality today at Stevens:<br><br> www.king5.com/localnews/stories/NW_01180...lledEL.1698c3a2.html

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  • Amar Andalkar
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20 years 3 weeks ago #173898 by Amar Andalkar
Replied by Amar Andalkar on topic Re: Anybody know anything about this accident, or
Another story (with a shocking twist!) about a near-fatal tree well incident at Crystal:<br><br> seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420ap_wa_snow_hazard.html <br><br>

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  • Jason_H.
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20 years 3 weeks ago #173900 by Jason_H.
Wow! I read that article a few times. Scary. I've only had one close call with a tree well. I jumped off a cliff and fell forward on the steep landing. I fell right into a tree well and barely got out! It is one of the scarier moments I've had.

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  • ron j
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20 years 3 weeks ago #173903 by ron j

Wow! I read that article a few times. Scary.

<br>Me too, Jason.<br>That's quite a twist, Amar.<br>I think when we make this [very easy to make] mistake it will just be blind luck if our head gets completely buried or not.<br>

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