Tent or Bivy?

Must contradict.<br><br>I consider the Wild Things Icesac to be both super-light and very durable. I've been using it for pretty much all my trips since March and it's showing no signs of wear. I think it will last me more than one season, and it is good for trips ranging from day trips to as long as I'll go. <br><br>And I love to bivy. I don't own a tent. If I think I'll need a tent, I opt to drink beer instead.<br><br>Just my too sense.

The Betamid is relatively inexpensive, light, and simple. For a little more $$ a sil-nylon version is made. I like using my ski poles instead of carrying a pole, and also utilize skis to anchor the sides, to reduce the number of snow stakes to carry. I also have an old Megamid. Site prep is necessary usually with a shovel on snow and boot pack for a good pitch. <br><br>Advantages of being floorless include no floor to get wet (just the bottom of your pad). Some tent floors may have better treatments, but I grew tired in the past of packing a wet tent floor if the opportunity for drying was not feasible. Also, snow can be scooped from one corner of a floorless tent for melting, other fluids dumped into the snow in another corner. Your dog can sleep in on his mini dog pad and not get as much hair on the tent and raise the ambient internal temperature in the tent.<br><br>Disadvantages of a floorless tent are skill and effort required for a good pitch, especially in wind; it can be breezy on a volcano under the sides of a Betamid if not properly pitched. And the tighter the seal of the bottom, the more condensation, so one needs to have some walls of snow and some ventilation. Cooking in a storm in my Megamid has resulted in serious inside condensation and resultant ice coating sometimes that melts and drips (avoid). However, spills in a floorless tent are not a problem. I dream of a tent design that incorporates a lightweight battery fan and vents that remove the condensation. <br><br>My military experience allowed me to sleep, even in winter (albeit briefly) under a military poncho "bivy", so one must weigh what can be done and what one wants to do. Getting dressed, eating, reading, etc. in a bivy can be challenging. I had a one hoop bivy before getting the first Megamid and used it only a few times.<br><br>I must confess that I covet the First Light, which would have advantages in ease of pitching and in bad weather. On the other hand, I now tend to be a fair weather wimp in regard to mountain trips since I worked outdoors in the Cascades in all seasons for a dozen years. Another important personal concept to prevent tent failure is to get out of the high country before the bad weather moves in. I would usually rather be at home with my family unless it is nice weather in the high country, anyway. Equipment to tolerate bad weather weighs more, and it is possible to stay in bad weather if one wants to carry the weight. <br><br>I have slept in my 2 lb. REI Cyclops 40 degree bag in all seasons for 18 years. Obviously, it is durable, and I am a warm sleeper. In winter to sleep I wear booties, Gore Tex pants over my Patagonia Guide pants, and my puff or down jacket, and just stay toasty. My theory is that I will have the cold weather clothing, so if I sleep in it in a 40 degree bag it should be fine, and it has been. I think the ideal design of a bag would be to have the bottom zip open to wear as a coat, as Western Mountaineering has done with a down light bag. And there are 1/2 bags to combine with a down parka.<br><br>For four years I have used the Exped down air mat, a luxurious and warm 3 1/2 inch mattress with a reasonable weight. The Ridge Rest or Thermarest are fine also in my experience, but the thick cushion of the down air mat is a comfort in my advanced age.<br><br>Overnight one can take the pre-made food in sealed plastic and foil for dinner such as Dinty Moore in the supermarket (peel the corner of the foil to vent and put it in hot water to heat- no dirty pot to clean), or the military MRE or some other stuff and avoid prep and diswashing. In fact, the premade meal packs with a chemical heater (like MREs) are now available from hunting outfitters, so one could save stove fuel (and inside tent condensation from running the stove) as well. A few ounces of packaged prepared food for dinner is worth the convenience to me. Further, to avoid complexity and conserve fuel in the AM I like oatmeal bars with peanut butter (heavy duty nutrition) with my hot instant espresso (Albertson's) / instant Cappucino mix. I owned one of the backpacker espresso makers but just decided to use instant for simplicity. I feel that if one can get over complexity in food prep/ consumption, much weight and time (and condensation) is saved. Overnight I just need the small Snow Peak stove with piezo lighter and a 1 hour canister in the titanium pot that will nest it.<br><br><br>Simple, light, and comfortable are a feasile combination, in my view.

Must contradict.<br><br>I consider the Wild Things Icesac to be both super-light and very durable. I've been using it for pretty much all my trips since March and it's showing no signs of wear. I think it will last me more than one season, and it is good for trips ranging from day trips to as long as I'll go. <br>

<br>Seconded. Best pack on the market, by far. And it carries leaps and bounds better than my internal-frame Arc'teryx Khamsin 62. <br><br>Wild Things deserves to be more popular. I strongly urge everybody to go to Pro Mountain Sports and buy one. Today.

Hey Sky and Paul - any idea on the weight of the Icesac? Wildthing's doesn't list the wt for the std version ( www.wildthingsgear.com/icesac.html ), though it does list the wt for the spectra version @ 3lbs 8ounces. It's definitely pretty light but it's not as light as the Granite Gear Vapor which is 1lbs 14ounces ( www.granitegear.com/products/backpacks/u...por_trail/index.html ).

Packs are one item that I'm currently willing to accept several onces of more weight (within reason) for increased durability and easier organization. Skis/boots/bindings I'm more weight conscience about -- you know how the saying goes, a lb on your feet is 1,000lbs on your back (or something like that :-)).

Maybe the next trend in ultralight gear will be disposable packs, intended for just one use? 8)

Joe:  there are pros and cons with any system.  here's my current gear list and why i think they are important.<br><br>tent vs. bivy<br>i own a light North Face two-person tent.  it's only a 3 season model but if i'm careful about where and how i pitch it, it can withstand a lot.  however, in the past few years i've switched to using an Integral Designs Silshelter and a simple bag cover ( Integral Designs Endurance ).  the tart-like shelter and bag cover weigh 16 oz. and 10 oz., respectively.  i stopped carrying my tent because of weight. also, the tarp and bag cover combo takes up very little room compared to my tent, vestibule, and poles.  i find it more comfortable to travel light.  here are some examples of my Silshelter:<br><br>1. Pitched <br>2. camp.  one small tent and two tarp shelters.  the gray one is mine. <br><br>my Silshelter accomodates two, plus gear.  it requires one ski pole in the middle.  small cord are used to properly tension the shelter, and if properly configured, the system is surprisingly sturdy.  it has no floor, so rodents can be a problem, and if it's pitched at a local minium, then you get the waterbed effect.  and without bug netting, mosquitos can be a problem too, but that's what head nets are for .  all things considered, i prefer it over a tent for most of what i do.  i often plan my overnight trips when the weather is relatively stable, so i don't need as much weather protection as a tent.  if the weather is bad and i still want to get out, then i go out for a day trip instead. overall, a tarp works for me because it's simple and light, and versatile.  i sometimes carry it on day trips just in case i need it to wait out an unexpected rain storm.<br><br>i have done one modification to my Silshelter though.  the opening has no zipper, so i picked up a #3 sized zipper from Seattle Fabrics on HWY99 and attached it.  a 30-minute sewing-machine job did the trick.  now i can zip the opening shut.<br><br>pack<br>i've used a lot of packs.  one of my favorites is the Osprey Ceres 50L.  it works for day and overnight trips.  i've even used it on 3-day ski trip and had extra food left.  it's not very big, so i have to be careful what i put in it.  having said that, four months ago i got a Wild Things Rock Sac.  it doesn't have a frame, just a foam pad, so i was skeptical, but surprisingly it works great!  i modified the pack by sewing a new top lid which is smaller and lighter than the original.  i use the regular top lid when i need more room, and the homemade one on day trips.  the pack material is very durable as Sky has pointed out.  it's light too, and of course, very simple.  but you have to pack smart to ensure comfort.  i think it's more comfortable than my Ceres which has a frame.  interesting...<br><br>stove<br>i own both a gas stove and canister stove.  for trips where i don't have to melt much snow for water and when the temperature is relatively warm, i use my canister stove.  i use it the most, actually. it's simple and light and packs nicely.<br><br>pad<br>foam, of course, because i'm not good around sharp pointy thingys.<br><br>anyway, good luck shopping for gear!

Jeff, Jim Nelson lists it as 2lbs 15oz on his website. I believe that he weighs all the gear he sells himself, so I'd assume this is fairly realistic. It's hard to find commercial packs under 1 lbs per 1000 cubic inches, and the icesac meets this criterion. <br><br>Not, it's not going to be as light as the Golite silnylon packs, but it's many times more durable. And I guarantee that the icesac carries skis and boots better than the Granite Gear featherweight stuff. <br><br>Yeah, it's nice to minimize weight, but it's hard to justify the extremes given that this pack will frequently have size 13 Denalis strapped to it. Like Ray Jardine says, if you want to minimize weight, focus on the heavy items. <br><br>Kam, is the silshelter really big enough for two? I set one up at REI and remember that it really wasn't big enough to fit one (well, fit me, would that be like three 'normal' people?).