Tent or Bivy?

All of my ski trips are day jaunts. I have considered the extended trip for 1-2 days to fullfill some of those long time, wish list, ski trips. I have considered purchasing a bivy for the light and fast. One with the hoop attachment at the end so I don't feel to confined. But the lure of the lighter tents are an option for some roomy comfort especially if you have a guest. I would love to hear from the experienced posters who have some education in this arena. Also, Thermarest vs. foampad?<br>Thanks-Joe

I recently bought one of the newer Black Diamond tents--I think they call it a First Light. It's a wedge design the same size as a Bibler I-tent. It uses some sort of semi-waterproof, semi-breathable fabric that is very light. I haven't slept in the rain yet in it, but I think it would be a good choice for the sort of trip you describe. It packs remarkably small and weighs under 3 lbs. I've used bivi sacks and pyramid style tents, but I really like getting inside a tent that cuts the wind so you can cook and rest in comfort. If you're just doing a single overnight, and you're shooting for good weather anyway, I think a tent like this would be fine even if the fabric proves to be a bit leaky.<br><br>On our recent Dome Peak trip, we had considerable condensation inside the tent during our second night out, when the fog and mist moved in. The other nights I've been out in it (which have been fair weather) the tent stayed dry inside. I always carry a wash cloth to sop up tent moisture. Here's a link found by google:<br><br> www.mtntools.com/cat/camping/tent/blackd...ndfirstlighttent.htm

The newer 3/4 length thermarests are very nice. I prefer thermarests to foam pads because they are more comfortable and packable, although slightly heavier. Use your pack as your pad under your feet.

The last things you'll want for those lightweight overnights are a light down bag and a cartridge stove with a small pot. I did a shakedown overnighter at Rainier a couple months ago where I easily got my tent, pad, 1-lb. sleeping bag and small cookset in my normal daypack. What a pleasure!

Here's a picture showing how compact some of this modern gear is. The pot was selected because the cartridge stove fits inside perfectly. I haven't weighed it, but the whole kit must weigh less than six pounds.

<br><br>Wow, I sure let myself get distracted this morning! Back to work...

I think it depends, as you say, on whether you have a guest along as well as what sort of weather you get. There's no substitute for a tent when it gets really nasty and you have to hang out for a day or two, and there are some pretty cool and light single wall tents out now. When you split up the tent and, say, stove/fuel with two the weight evens out. Don't know about the Black Diamond offerings for the NW (anyone using these?) but the regular Biblers are bomber and the Mountain Hardwear EV2 looks nice. <br><br>I've used several bivys (bivies?) including the Bibler Hooped, a North Face XCR bivy, and currently an Integral Designs Salathe, and all are fine for moderate rain/light snow. The Salathe is cool because it has fairly long zippers on both sides; you can cook/eat in it and even relieve yourself during the night (on snow at least) without getting out of your bag (well, probably guys only). If the weather looks marginal I also take an 8 x 12 sil-nylon tarp. With more people, we usually take a Mega-lite.<br><br>Pads? Foam is effective but big. The new ThermaRest Pro-lites are nice and pack pretty small. I've been using an Exped air-only mattress (tiny, about the size of half a sandwich from Subway) along with the foam pad I normally have in my pack anyway (foam pad needs to go between you and air mattress on snow).<br><br>

Tents are expensive. Hence, I have a simple bivy, and a BD Betalite (bought the day after a trip when digging a cave took four hours). I haven't used the combination in winter yet, but for summer camping the Betalite is wonderful. Of course, really high winds will probably destroy it. <br><br>I have found that bivies are miserable when there's any kind of preciptation or spindrift. You can't zip the thing closed without suffocating, so there's always a hole for stuff to get through. <br><br>I'd get the lightest, simplest bivy available (eg Integral Designs Endurance, or Montbell ULSBC), and a tarp/tent thing with it. <br><br>The EPIC tents are somewhat strange, but I know a guy who has one, and he says in rain the thing leaks like a sieve. Might be ok in the snow...<br><br>As for pads, I just carry a cheap foam pad. I'm sure that I'd puncture a thermarest in a heartbeat.

Paul has a good point - the single wall tents I covet are all in the $600 range and almost never get discounted. Even the basic I-tent is $540 (kinda small, even for short guys like me), the Eldorado is $575, and the EV2 is $625, I believe. Hard to justify unless you are doing a fair amount of winter camping, especially when you also need to buy things like skis . . .<br><br>Edited to add: I did see a used Bibler I-tent at Second Ascent a week or two ago for $300 (one hole, patched, perfect otherwise). Decided to make the car payment instead.

Nothing like a good gear question to spark the gearheads!<br><br>

we had considerable condensation inside the tent during our second night out, when the fog and mist moved in. down bag and a cartridge stove with a small pot.

<br>Thanks for the link Lowell! I always need another gear site. I looked at the First light and it was one of my first choices. I was concerned with the condensation and no windows, plus extra costs for all the add-ons. <br>The down bag is also on the list since what degree bag do you find that works well. I am under the assumtion/fear that the bag will get wet from condensation and make the trip a wash. On the cartridge stove my concerns were that it would not be as effective in upper elevations and produce(s) enough heat, plus considering how much fuel to carry along?<br><br>My drawback on the Bibler was that the target is mainly spring tour and the tent poles are my ski poles-would I need to break down the tent to ski?!<br><br>I really like the Mega Light for a fast tent design (cost 200 something), but I am uncertain of the airyness of that style. Other thoughts include-Well if I get the Mega Light I need a floor, and if I camp in the warmer lower areas I will need a bug shield which all add to weight and costs.<br><br>I like Pauls response in reguard to suffocation in a bivy-I can relate.<br>Greg those car payments get in the way of some great purchases.<br><br>Costs factor to making a good decisions, so I do not have a quiver like everything else just for an infrequently used item.<br>Thanks for that responses-<br>Joe