Passholder loyalty -- and vice versa.

Thanks Amar for the great detective work as usual. Thank goodness I think in math.<br><br>My new powder skis put a jinx on this season, how many times can you jinx before you runout? I'm not worried but if next year is bad you'll know why.

<br>So it is unlikely, but not inconceivable, that next season could also be far below normal for snowfall in the WA Cascades. The probability of that happening is roughly a few percent. However, the probability of next season being below normal is about 50% ...............

<br><br>So that means there is about a 50% chance of it being a good snow year too. <br><br>Look whats happened over the last weekend, new snow! Maybe more this weekend, if that keeps up we may be able to knock out the ski-fest after all <br><br><br>

I have not skiied as much (lift access), but what I have skied (BC) has been rather good! If I focus on the skiing/hiking-experience, not the lack of snow- it has been a great season!..........Closely monitoring weather and wind has kept me in the grins more than the frowns. Areas open or closed.

<br><br>Yes indeed, it has been an interesting snow year. The snow that has fallen has been really pretty good and we have had a great time finding it and playing in it, and even had time to find those new areas that we have wanted to check out over the years. So all is not lost in our treasure hunt. Hats off to the ski areas for giving back to the season passholders, it's better than the odds in Vegas. <br><br>

<br>Well, I'm actually much more optimistic than the cold hard stats make it seem. In the Cascades, even most of those seasons which are statistically "below normal" are pretty good or even great for skiing. Since I moved to Seattle in 1994, only two seasons (2000-2001 and this one) would fail to meet my definition of "good" or better. So I'd say that over 80% of seasons are good here, with typically only 1 or 2 fair-poor seasons per decade. And even in those years, there's plenty of worthwhile skiing to be found.<br><br>

My advice is to go backcountry skiing and forget Stevens Pass. If you want a quality ski area experience, go to a place not owned by Harbor Properties.<br><br>There is perhaps a 30% to 50% chance that you will have quality skiing at Stevens Pass even when in full operation, in my view. One of the last tickets that I bought there a few years ago was full price, even though the full area did not open until 2 PM (with a 2:45 PM Mill Valley closure) on a powder day. The Area Manager at the time, Tom Fortune, who now runs Schweitzer, was quite confident in his decision to keep the full ticket price- chest-beating proud that he held the line. Aside from that, I would make unfavorable comparisons of grooming and winch cat use to other maritime climate ski areas, not to mention the poor customer service that is often encountered.<br><br>There is probably a 100% chance that the management and owner (Harbor Properties) of Stevens Pass are not in it for the love of skiing. Harbor appears to be in it for the cash cow benefit. In the past Harbor has apparently invested the sizable profits from Stevens Pass (a user of your National Forest) into real estate ventures in downtown Seattle. It appears that such investment was made even during the seven year absence of lift building or improvement during the 1980s. In fact, it would appear that there is a 100% chance that Stevens Pass could care less if you ski, or live or die, except when you spend money for its benefit. <br><br>On an historical note, after Harbor purchased Mt. Ashland, OR and made some improvement, bad snow years prevented the obscene profits, such as are made at Stevens Pass. Harbor actively made plans, then, in the absence of a buyer with the right price, to remove the ski area and restore the land according to the requirements of the USFS. The locals in Ashland organized and the ski area was bought, and continues to operate. After (Harbor) buying into Mission Ridge ski area, the scheme for a recreational housing subdevelopment on adjacent land fell through, and guess what? Harbor wanted out, and briefly made hints about closing down Mission Ridge. Fortunately, an individual with some level of appreciation of the resource bought Mission Ridge. Harbor has put its money into improving Schweitzer- where it can make more profit from real estate development opportunities. <br><br>The owners of Stevens Pass neglected many opportunities for terrain expansion that were available during the 1970s- 1990s. Such lack of terrain expansion probably does not harm the bottom line. More lodges were built, food and drink prices, ticket prices, etc., were increased. The amount of lift-skiing in WA generally is limited by available terrain- Forest Service Permitted terrain. During the past decades local demand for skiing increasingly exceeded the supply. As a result, the greedy slugs who were given control of the resource (your National Forest land) just rake in more and more profits, while offering no more actual skiing. An Intrawest salesman once made the claim to me that 67% of Whistler skier visits are from WA. I would attribute this to both a lack of intelligent development here and also the difficulty in developing, especially since the 1990s. Meanwhile, Harbor just rakes in more profits from increasingly overcrowded skiing terrain.<br><br>Oh well, at this stage in my post lift-skiing life, I am glad that terrain was left out of a ski area. Let's just go ski touring and forget those greedy slugs.

My advice is to go backcountry skiing and forget Stevens Pass. If you want a quality ski area experience, go to a place not owned by Harbor Properties.<br><br>. . .<br><br>An Intrawest salesman once made the claim to me that 67% of Whistler skier visits are from WA. I would attribute this to both a lack of intelligent development here and also the difficulty in developing, especially since the 1990s. Meanwhile, Harbor just rakes in more profits from increasingly overcrowded skiing terrain. <br><br>Oh well, at this stage in my post lift-skiing life, I am glad that terrain was left out of a ski area. Let's just go ski touring and forget those greedy slugs.

<br><br>"Randonnee", if you're going to post an angry diatribe, you ought to at least sign your name to it and not hide anonymously. But this forum really isn't the place for attacks against anyone or anything, including Stevens Pass. I have tried not to unfairly attack Stevens in my previous posts in this thread.<br><br>Also, some of your statements are just absurd . . . do you actually believe that 67% of Whistler skiers could come from WA? The true numbers are that about 1/3 are from the US, with roughly 1/9 from WA. Check the facts before angrily typing away.<br>

On an historical note, after Harbor purchased Mt. Ashland, OR and made some improvement, bad snow years prevented the obscene profits, such as are made at Stevens Pass. Harbor actively made plans, then, in the absence of a buyer with the right price, to remove the ski area

<br><br>This story has a happy ending to it:<br>

In February 1991, Stevens Pass put the ski area up for sale with the condition that if the ski area would not sell within one year they would remove the lifts and install them at the Stevens Pass ski area in Washington. Among the reasons for the sale were centralization of holdings, two consecutive poor snow years and frustration in regard to the slow planning process caused by controversies. As of early January 1992 no buyer for the ski area had been found and the reality of not having a ski area set in. At that time, Stephen Jamieson, a Medford attorney and an avid skier, stopped by Bob Matthews' Rogue Ski Shop in Medford and discussed the idea of forming a fundraising group and to purchase the resort for the people of Southern Oregon and Northern California. Following this conversation, Mount Ashland Ski Association (MASA) was born. When Harbor Properties heard of the community's action, they reduced the resort's price to $1.4 million and extended the sale deadline to April 6, 1992. <br><br>The newly formed organization faced a seemingly insurmountable fundraising task. In less than three months they had to raise $1.7 million - $1.4 million for the resort purchase and $300,000 for operating funds. The effort gained credibility by convincing the City of Ashland to serve as the purchasing entity and fundraising recipient. Another exciting turning point arrived when local Rotary Clubs raised over $500,000 and when Governor Barbara Roberts approved an economic development State Grant in the same amount. Citizens contributed $675,000 with two thirds of the amount coming from non-skiers. On July 1, 1992 MASA donated the assets of the ski area to the City of Ashland. In turn the city leased the facility to a newly formed non-profit corporation by the name of Mt. Ashland Association dba. Ski Ashland for $1 a year under a 25 year lease. Ski Ashland established a board of directors who hired a management team to operate the resort. The Internal Revenue Service approved the ski area's application to become a 501(c)3 Non-Profit Organization. Mt. Ashland Association is a non-profit corporation organized under the laws of the State of Oregon exclusively to provide educational and recreational opportunities in Jackson County, Oregon to members of the general public. <br><br>On December 10, 1992 the Mt. Ashland Ski Area opened it's door for it's first day of operations under public ownership. In accordance with it's mission statement, Ski Ashland is offering an array of complimentary and highly discounted ski and snowboard programs which feature healthy, educational opportunities for youths and families. Public ownership also rekindled the skiing consciousness in the local communities. For example, participation in the After School Ski Program - a highly discounted learn-to-ski program for young students - grew from 900 student in the 91/92 season to 2300 in 98/99.<br><br>Since the buyout the ski area has had eleven successful seasons of operations in black ink. The generated revenues have allowed for ongoing quality maintenance of the facility, a total modernization of it's snow grooming fleet and vast improvements in summer slope grooming.

<br>That's from: www.mtashland.com/Page.asp?ID=51

It was for the better that Harbor sold the resort. The Ashlanders I've met are very proud of their community-owned ski area.