MRNP-ski run names

Chris - Obviously I was funning you in my last post, but Robie pretty much hit the nail on the head in responding to Rick's mention of "The Map". <br><br>The real (recent history) godfather that I know of as far as bc skiing around Paradise goes is Gary Vogt. Gary gave us Bundy's (Bundy's Blunder), The Ditch, Porcupine, the Refrigerator and many others. Gary has been skiing around Paradise for over thirty years and still skis there regularly. He drives a little tan Toyota pickup with a shell on the back and skis long waxless skis with leather boots. He likes to ski solo but likes to show appreciative people around, too. If you see him say hello, he's a really nice guy and real interesting to tour with, especially if you like covering a lot of ground.<br><br>And like I said, Rick, there really is a map. It's one that Gary put together a while back to start keeping track of all the neat places he had discovered around Paradise over the years. Gary has shared that map with several of us Rainier regulars and we do actually refer to it as Gary's "Rosetta Stone". But Gary actually toys with possibly sometime selling such a map. He might even enjoy doing guided ski tours for hire around Paradise to some of the places shown on his map sometime, if the park service rules on such activities ever change. So it would be a blatant breach of his trust to share his map with others. The map is Gary's to share, not ours. I have marked a lot of Gary's lines on my own maps with Topo! and shown Gary what they look like on a Topo! produced map but I think Gary would like to end up with something a little more professional looking.<br><br>So if there are any of you out there with professional map making skills that would be willing to contribute some time and efforts to the cause to produce a map under Gary's guidance, Robie and I can hook you up. I would like to see all or the majority of any profits go to Gary, as Robie also suggests. Gary, being the dedicated backcountry skier that he is, has led a pretty spartan life, at least since I have know him. When I first met him he was living in his truck; now he has a small place out of Ashford that he cares for and works on constantly. I suspect a little help from the sale of his maps would be a big help to his existence. Maybe Charles could also make a small stipend from the map by being the exclusive "on-line" distributor.<br><br>So getting back to names, Doug, I equate the "Back Bowl" and the "Mazama Bowl" as the same place. I like to call it Mazama Bowl, only because I think it sounds better and is more descriptive of location. The bowl directly south of Mazama bowl Gary calls "Back of Beyond Bowl". I like that name too. The bowl's quite a bit tighter that the Mazama bowl and has a few more steep lines. It would be a good place to get buried in high avy conditions.<br>Just over the little ridge that runs down into Mazama Bowl in a northeasterly direction from the south side is another little bowl. I think I've heard Robie call that one "Birthday Bowl" but I don't have a name for it.<br>The Devil's Dip is another famous ski location near Paradise with a lot of history. I have seen old pictures of ski events being held there in the early 1900's. It's the slope at the southwest corner of Barn Flats where the Narada trail drops down off the flats. Not very much vertical there but it's a pretty cool line when the snow pack is more normal.<br><br>Believe it or not, having access to Gary's map taught us something I would have never expected: In the process of searching out Gary's spots we have discovered may spots of our own. And during the process we see other lines we want to check out and then another. Sometimes we go all year before we get back to "the Stone" to look for another of Gary's goodies. I doubt if we've even been to half of the locations marked on Gary's map.<br><br>So, in retrospect, we probably didn't need Gary's map at all; just the motivation to go and explore terrain we'd never visited before. While it sometimes cuts into the days vertical to be wandering around looking for the best line up or down, or even worse, ends up with a few unplanned torture points from an unwanted bushwhack, rock climb or rapel, when you find the goods it's a lot of fun, and well worth the efforts. That spot then is YOURS - you own it (that is until the next time you come over the rise and find 30 skiers on it:) Then you just laugh it off and go find another:)) Bottom line is we've found the best way for us to learn about new places to ski is to just go out and find them; and we learned that from having a copy of Gary's "Rosetta Stone". So I guess it has done us more good that even Gary expected... or maybe he knew all along what it would really lead us to... who knows.<br><br>So, anyway, Chris, while getting a copy of Gary's map from me is not an option, if you want to learn more about the local Paradise terrain names than what Robie and I have contributed here, drop me an email and I'll give you some more thoughts on the matter.<br>

Thanks Robie and Ron J. What a great post by the two of you. Very interesting and informative. As you say, we are following in tracks left by others.<br>I know Lowell Skoog is working on a history of ski mountaineeing and one day I look forward to reading about these great personalities.<br>As a newby here it takes some time to learn all the names of the various areas you stumble upon and you soon realize that people have different names for the same area. It think that once you know the history behind a particular areas name, it means even more to regularily ski there.<br>I am certainly interested in some of your suggestions and will PM you.<br>Thanks both of you<br>Chris( aka Scotsman with the G3"s)

It's one that Gary put together a while back to start keeping track of all the neat places he had discovered around Paradise over the years.

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 In the process of searching out Gary's spots we have discovered may spots of our own.  And during the process we see other lines we want to check out and then another.  Sometimes we go all year before we get back to "the Stone" to look for another of Gary's goodies.

<br><br>It's very nice to have Gary's map, so when he, Robie, or Dorothea speak of something, we know where it is, like the back bowl, or Bundy's. As Ron said we haven't even covered all of the territory available for skiing at Paradise, and haven't had a need to do the Muir snowfield in the past 5+ years. There is just to much great skiing available in so many different areas. Shoot we can go for several weekends to Paradise, ski different lines and never run into anyone else, which is such a great part of bc skiing. A lot of our chioces for skiing are based on the snow conditions, weather, wind scoured snow, breakable crust etc. We have covered lots of lower elevation slopes around Paraidse proper and have been able to find powder stashes in places you would never think to look. Some of our most fun days have been skiing the lower angles in high avy conditions. Looking over TR's the following Monday, on bad weather weekends, just confirms that sometimes the best snow is passed up trying to find someting better. <br><br>This past weekend the snow was fantastic, but the Longmire gate didn't open as early as we thought, so doing a "big" tour was out of the question for us "geezer" types. We knew that the Mazama bowl would be crowded just from the number of people that were waiting for some of that great powder, and choice of various angles available. Ron, Jerry, myself, and Dick figured this would be the case, so we decided to venture off into the abiss to find someting new to ski, we found it, knew it wasn't on the "Rosetta Stone" map and named it "White's Knuckle", since Jerry was the first to ski in that particular spot, and then of course I came up with "Pillow Talk" since there seemed to be pillows and pillows of endless powder skiing below "White's Knuckle". So, that's how the naming goes. There is so much skiable terrain available and if racking up the vertical isn't that important to you, all you have to do is accept the adventure, find something you haven't skied yet, and knock it out. It's actually very fun to seek out your very own uncrowded slice of Paradise and have your way with it.