Punching into crevasses: skis vs on foot

Those don't help my case, do they?

Um, ah, No

This new topic is more fun. A lot more visual...

Great topic, wolfs. And great input from all.<br>I know while on foot I have punched one leg through (and pitched forward to arrest) but never even come close on skis. <br>My thoughs to some of the respondents:<br>

... and how 'we' are crazy to be skiing on top of snowbridges. I say 'we' because they used some photos of myself and brother as examples. Here is the picture they used, which they considered insane. I'm interested in what the general BC skier thinks here:

<br>Jason, I've skied over cracks maybe as much as half that width and didn't consider it particularly hazardous; I'm sure if I skied as well as (I perceive) you do I would not hesitate to ski that which is pictured (in the shot YOU posted), in the right conditions. As for the pics that Jeffey & Sam posted of you, well, um, ah... It's kinda fun to find yourself being used as an example without your knowledge, isn't it <br><br>

...But then the tradeoff is that on the ascent (assuming you are roped) it may be harder to self-arrest if there is a problem, and on the descent it just isn't practical to ski roped. Or has anyone tried this?

<br>We have done a lot of (uphill) roped glacier travel on skis in the mountie's annual ski GT class. While I agree that arresting a fall is a bit more problematic with skis on, we seem to get by ok. Of course we don't do two person rope teams; that could change the situation considerably. Also on one occasion we descended the glacier roped on skis (which I was definitely not looking forward to). What happened was that the fog had come in and the visibility had diminished to about 10 ft. We had marked the crevasse hazards on the way up with wands but we were not confident everyone would see the hazards in time, swooshing down the glacier on skis in the fog. What we decieded to do was rope up and put our skins on so that everyone could SLOWLY inch their way down with each rope team leader staying in sight of the tail end of the rope ahead. It took a while but I guess it worked ok 'cause we didn't lose anyone <br>That's the only time I've skied downhill roped (if you can call it that) and like others point out I have no interest in improving my roped downhill skiing skills. If I'm going to climb it, I want to (at least start out intending) to ski it. <br> <br>

...Speaking of belay-skiing, do any of you guys set up a belay anchor for doing ski cuts on avy slopes?

<br>I happen to be quite fond of belayed ski cuts, especially in chutes where there's no exit if it slides, or any other place where a ski cut leaves safety in question. We've gotten so that we can set them up pretty quick with a partner's skis and then the tester can safely literally bomb the hell out of a chute with his or her body by just jumping into it with skis on. The other thing that appeals to me is that once the tester is happy with the results and is ready to ski the slope he/she can have the belayer take out all the loops and knots on the other end of the rope and then ski on down dragging the rope behind (still tied in). If it was a bad call the resue should at least be fairly quick as it is unlikely the rope will be completely buried. <br><br>

Let's assume you travel at 10 m/s (~22 miles/hr, a very reasonable skiing speed). If you are above a crevasse opening below a snow bridge that is 2m wide, this gives you about .2 seconds above the abyss. In .2 seconds, gravitational freefall is only (1/2)*9.8(m/s^2)*(.2^2)~1meter. <br>The same analysis for 15 m/s (~33mph) results in a fall of less than 1/2 meter, in which case your speed would certainly carry you over the crevasse, albeit leaving you in a tumble.

<br>Yeah, I'm not sure I'm smart enough to follow all that but is sounds really good to me... and I guess the smaller the crevasse the better. The skis certainly would seem to bridge the smaller crevasses; my biggest concern skiing down is that at the completion of the turn my skis are across the fall line (presumably in line with the typical crevasse) so the bridging effect will be minimal. So, Sky, I guess following your practice and theory of skiing straight down the slope without turning would minimize that risk, eh? <br><br>

I've heard of people ski cutting a slope roped though not as much here in washington. This isn't a technique I have used, but have definately wanted to in the past. Now that I have my nice 20 meter rope, I'll be using it more often, especially when I have even a remote avi concern. <br>

<br><br><br>To continue on the tangent.....Many times I have wished for a rope before ski cutting a slope and kicking cornices. This technique would really open up some mid winter chutes with localized instabilities such as wind loaded entries with no place to "safely" ski cut. I would be a little more concerned if this procedure was used to ski open slopes with a wide spread avalanche concern, but for localized stuff, could be just the ticket.<br><br>Back to the subject......There is always someone or group that think everything, lets call them adventurous skiers, do is crazy. It all comes down to your skill and the level of risk you are willing to accept. Ok......we are taking about UK skiers right.....do they have mountains in the UK? I find it funny they choose that relatively tame picture of a crevasse jump over others I have seen. The skier appears to plan that jump quite well, looks like a great glory shot and a good day at the office.<br>

Yea, I thought of that UK thing. <br><br>Do you have a link to these sick crevasse pics I'd like to see them...<br><br>