The "Seattle Skintrack" on Table Mountain

sounds like the legendary baker raven clan is still at it and new members being hatched daily. i thought the raven clan left that area and was all about sled access now anyway?

speaking of driving....many people put their egos into it. letting someone by is just too much of a slam to them. same applies to bc travel. take an existing skin track for example. if someone comes up behind you and they're hauling ass just let 'em cruise by when you're in a safe spot. not a big deal. who knows, maybe they'll stoke you out later with a doobie at the top.

Andrew McLean chimes in with his backcountry etiquette list.

straightchuter.com/top-ten-bad-bc-ski-ha...&fb_ref=pub-standard

BTW, I did find out through the grapevine who some of those folks were. Quite disappointing.

Anyway, I gave up on this thread a while ago... So to continue with the soul intent of flaming this thread:

Andrew McLean chimes in with his backcountry etiquette list. 

straightchuter.com/top-ten-bad-bc-ski-ha...&fb_ref=pub-standard

BTW, I did find out through the grapevine who some of those folks were.  Quite disappointing. 

Not sure which of those top 10 apply except #6, and it's not clear how you're applying that to this thread:
Are you apologizing for #6? Or bragging that you followed McLean's "remedy" by breaking your own track? Or maybe you've finally come around and you are now complimenting the skinners for breaking their own track? Nice.


I did think of a solution for you to consider: John Henry's like the bike routes use. You could go out after every big dump and spray paint directions on the snow for everyone to follow. That way no one would get confused and go the "wrong" way. On second thought, they should probably just ban backcountry skiing and skinning except on designated trails.

That list wasn't for you since we've already established that neither of us are going to change the opinion of the other. That's fine.

I just put it here since this thread is about route finding and decision making in avy terrain and that list has some relevance.

Have a great season.

Linking to threads on avalanches in the area is totally useless in this context.  Of course that slope can and does slide.  That misses the point.  The point is on a given day when a party has evaluated that slope as within their acceptable level of risk, then why the heck can't they climb it direct and save the time?  Just because it irks a few locals?  Why are the locals dropping onto that slope unless they've deemed that slope *unlikely* to slide? 

I was going to link directly to Vimeo but Chuck beat me to the original thread.

The same size avalanche would have happened if the line had been into Heart Shaped box instead of Blueberry 2 but a slide in HSB would have taken out the skin track. Who would be at fault in that condition? The skin track isn't visible until you get past the break in slop angle near the trees and by then it could be too late.

There would be a big difference in the consequence of getting hit from above by that slide versus being near the crown at the start of it and having a plan on how to get out. I know where I'd rather be. The avalanche bulletin that day wasn't too different than it was last week during the high pressure.

I have no sympathy for people who climb that line. They are trading 5 minute faster laps for the assumption of risk.

..
You are right tho, I don't understand your argument:  that a slope with a terrain trap at the bottom is safe to ski, but not safe to skin.  That's never made any sense to me.  Either you think it's safe or it's not.  ...

Risk factors aren't binary -- if you needed 100% certainty that a slope is safe -- you couldn't really ski anywhere -- including developed ski area, in-bounds avalanche incidents and fatalities do occur.

Taking a route with a lower risk profile on the ascent reduces risk exposure in the following ways.

1) You learn more about the snow-pack as you ascend, perhaps you turn back partway up or choose to retrace your lower risk ascent route.
2) Ski cuts and other techniques can be used to gauge slope stability from above without commiting to skiing the steeper slopes.
3) Time of exposure to risky terrain is greater during the ascent than during the ascent.
4) It is more feasable to spread out party members so that only one is exposed to higher risk terrain at a time on the descent.