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Avy in Great Scott Bowl?
- Good2Go
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11 years 10 months ago #130762
by Good2Go
Replied by Good2Go on topic Re: Avy in Great Scott Bowl?
Egads, can you believe how they're standing on that hang fire! And it's sitting right on top of that never abating PWL too! Those guys are obviously totally clueless! This unique snowpack it totally unpredictable and must be tamed! Too bad we can't bomb it all to dirt.
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- Mattski
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11 years 10 months ago #131055
by Mattski
FSG
I am curious why you are only concerned for the clients and not the rest of the general public out doing the same thing? Are there more clients than recreationalists in the Methow? What exactly are the old locals doing that everyone else should know? Since you are calling out individuals by name I think you should use your real name so we can face the accuser.
I looked at the US Avi fatalities for the last 5 years(avalanche.org-accident database) and there have been only two guided avalanche accidents that resulted in fatalities both in AK. So out of 24 deaths in the US this year, only a guide was killed, not the clients. Two years before in the same operation in AK another guide died with a client. Your specific references to choices of guided parties that did not result in an accident seem to be speculation about their decision making process.
I believe your avalanche & snowpack observations are excellent and helpful then over-reach when judging professionals. The Avalanche Review article does not separate out snow professionals with little or a lot of experience. That group includes ski patrol, DOT and guides. Pro Patrollers are almost certain to be caught and possibly injured in an accident if they work for up to 10 years due to their constant exposure to actual avalanche happening during control work. When you go through the avalanche accident database you see the professional getting caught and killed are from ski patrols working avalanche control. This part of the job statistically is on par with Alaska fishing in terms of hazard and the likelihood of injury.
Your narrow focus a few guides in WA Pass obscures the fact that few accidents happen in a guided setting. Those that do rarely result in injury. Some people post about their near misses on TAY and some don't. While the learning from the accident is a great opportunity, not everyone feels compelled to do so and that is what makes our right to free speech so great.
Replied by Mattski on topic Re: Avy in Great Scott Bowl?
greg, i hope you can understand that many of us are concerned when we see clients out on dangerous days in avy terrain and feel the pain when we hear of a client or guide death on such a day. It is only natural to want to find a solution.
FSG
I am curious why you are only concerned for the clients and not the rest of the general public out doing the same thing? Are there more clients than recreationalists in the Methow? What exactly are the old locals doing that everyone else should know? Since you are calling out individuals by name I think you should use your real name so we can face the accuser.
I looked at the US Avi fatalities for the last 5 years(avalanche.org-accident database) and there have been only two guided avalanche accidents that resulted in fatalities both in AK. So out of 24 deaths in the US this year, only a guide was killed, not the clients. Two years before in the same operation in AK another guide died with a client. Your specific references to choices of guided parties that did not result in an accident seem to be speculation about their decision making process.
I believe your avalanche & snowpack observations are excellent and helpful then over-reach when judging professionals. The Avalanche Review article does not separate out snow professionals with little or a lot of experience. That group includes ski patrol, DOT and guides. Pro Patrollers are almost certain to be caught and possibly injured in an accident if they work for up to 10 years due to their constant exposure to actual avalanche happening during control work. When you go through the avalanche accident database you see the professional getting caught and killed are from ski patrols working avalanche control. This part of the job statistically is on par with Alaska fishing in terms of hazard and the likelihood of injury.
Your narrow focus a few guides in WA Pass obscures the fact that few accidents happen in a guided setting. Those that do rarely result in injury. Some people post about their near misses on TAY and some don't. While the learning from the accident is a great opportunity, not everyone feels compelled to do so and that is what makes our right to free speech so great.
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