Dec. 3, Bagley Lakes (continuation of Nov. 16....)

There is value in this type of posting. Navigation and safe travel are some of the biggest challenges for beginners. Feedback helps. Wasn't there an interactive educational web game linked here last year that taught up track route selection? Just take this as a real life round.

This Table Mountain zone has a well established up track: the road to Artist Point. The road is the local convention. It's convention because it's the safest route up in terms of objective and subjective hazards. It's also the easiest route from Bagley Lakes to any line pictured (except diamond trees, right, which can also be approached from herman saddle). Convention isn't law but it's important in a heavily used area. Be predictable. There are several common lines in there where descenders can't even see folks on such an up track until they've dropped in.

Beyond safety is preserving real estate. Who wants to trip over a skin track speed bump in the descent route? The pictured skin track put speed bumps in at least 5 different lines. It's just inconsiderate to ruin terrain unnecessarily, especially in a high traffic area. There's a better way. Find it.

There is value in this type of posting. Navigation and safe travel are some of the biggest challenges for beginners. Feedback helps. Wasn't there an interactive educational web game linked here last year that taught up track route selection? Just take this as a real life round.

Fair enough, which is why the post is still up - like I said, my opinion. Feedback helps, though in my experience there are more effective ways of changing people's habits than the "idiot" threads.

Consider this the guidebook.  There's no excuse for making a skintrack up any of these slopes or chutes.  Use the road for the up.  The life you save will probably be your own. 


I think this is mock concern.

But anyways...

What is the name of the rock outcropping above the skin track starting point? I have heard it called "shipstern rock" or "the prow"

And what is the name of the line that drops in just to skiers left of it?

If after riding that line an individual wanted to do a few laps below that outcrop could you not make an argument that the safest line is right up through the tree band?

Look at all the debris all the way across the basin. Are you not equally exposed on your ascent back to the road across the basin?

I for one don't like to feel like I am aggravating everyone but unless there is a real danger to myself, my partners or others I am going to do what I want.

This is complicated I know because we all have a different idea of acceptable risk.

If the snowpack is safe why would anyone spend almost an hour doing the tour around table when they can skin straight up and do a lap every 20 minutes?

So what is the issue? Is it one of safety, convention, or etiquette?

I'd like to hear your thoughts

I'm on my work computer and it's blocking the image but I assume it's the one that's been making the rounds on Facebook over the last few days.  If it is then I agree that it is a skin track in very poor taste as it makes a wreck of the landing in Heart Shaped Box which is the first line to skier's right of the Nose (I've alse heard the prow and the buttress but never shipwreck rock).  Heart Shaped Box and the main chute (Blueberry 2, next main line skiers right) are both very prone to slide, I've been caught in there myself (remember April Fools on Table Mountain?).  It is local convention and etiquette to not skin directly up that path for the safety of the skinner and skiers descending.  I would not be happy if I stomped the mandatory air into HSB just to get tossed on the trough of the skin track trying to keep myself together at speed.

I don't expect too many people that want to ski any of the lines between Cheap Date and Little AK to be very patient with people skinning up the line.  Bagley Bowl is getting too crowded and poor skin track etiquette is going to make things worse. 

Like I said in the previous thread, feel free to stop me in the skintrack to say hi or ask for beta, instead of just bashing people who are seen as "doing it wrong" I'll do my best to help improve things for everyone. 

So what is the issue?  Is it one of safety, convention, or etiquette?

I'd like to hear your  thoughts

All of the above.
I never like skinning below other folks skiing down, even in stable conditions.
Why trash a nice slope with a skin track?
If one person does it others will follow, making more skin tracks up the slope.

I've heard several people say that folks are being taught to climb what they ski, that seems like an incredibly bad idea from an avalanche perspective. Why spend 10 times the amount of time on the suspect slope if there is a safe way up? I was taught that limiting exposure was a good habit.

Welcome, Hop. Glad to see that one of TGR's best has dipped a toe into TAY.

("Hey Genius" might not be the best impedance match, but the message is succinct and important ).