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Does this seem dumb to anyone else?

  • khyak
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13 years 1 month ago - 13 years 1 month ago #113655 by khyak
Replied by khyak on topic Re: Does this seem dumb to anyone else?
My 18 year old nephew had this issue when he took a course last year with Cascade Powder Cats.  I had given him an ortovox m2 for his backcountry safety.  Yes, it was older, but it passed testing for crystal drift.  Hell, you still see them for sale online. When my nephew showed up for class, his beacon was summarilly dismissed and he was given a loaner beacon.  I was pissed.  Like the original poster, I thought he should practice with what he owned.  When contacted afterward, CPC, stated that it was out of date and he should buy a new one.  Wish we all had disposable income to have the latest, greatest beacon.  My nephew, at most will use this beacon 3x a year.  It's awfully hard to justify spending big money for something to gather dust.  I would have preferred he got the chance to try his personal beacon, before being given the replacement.   I have not seen this issue brought up before in any magazines or online sites.  I believe one of the guides was a rep. and he did offer some kind of coupon for a new beacon.    The course was very well liked by my nephew and his dad.   He still has his old beacon. 

From a teaching standpoint, I don't see that the methods have changed, based on more modern beacons.  Following the flux line was discarded long ago, and all current methods seem to aim to directly go to the victim.  Even with the new beacons, an understanding of flux lines is important.  The biggest change I see is the ability to see mutiple victims and then have the ability to mask a signal.  Since the tracker is the most popular beacon, and does not have this feature, I am not sure how it is being taught.  There will always be a variety of beacons.  Hopefully at this kind of course, students have the ability to try some of the newer technology, or trade beacons with classmates.  It seems like all beacons have different strengths and weaknesses.  Also, it is always good to know how to turn off a variety of beacons.  Good in case of a large burial situation.

I am mentioning the class provider. The class was excellent and is highly recomended. This appears to be their standard policy, so better for it to be well understood and clearly communicated. I may not like it, but they are putting on the course and probably have put a lot more thought into the situation than I.
Last edit: 13 years 1 month ago by khyak.

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  • Randito
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13 years 1 month ago #113664 by Randito
Replied by Randito on topic Re: Does this seem dumb to anyone else?
For someone that uses an analog beacon three times a year -- I think the proper term is "corpse locator device" -- well actually I think "corpse locator device" is a useful term for *all* beacons with heavier PNW snows and prevelance of trees.   In Utah or Colorado I might have a somewhat different attitude.

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  • GerryH
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13 years 1 month ago #113666 by GerryH
Replied by GerryH on topic Re: Does this seem dumb to anyone else?
I'll echo Mattski's comments and add:
1) AIARE as an avalanche education organization recommends beacon replacement every 5 years, and the preferred use of 3 antenna, digital beacons - though two antenna antenna's are acceptable.  Beacons are more fragile than most suspect, and a cracked antenna can disable a beacon at any time.  What, you've never dropped your beacon? 
2) Why would anyone want to depend on a partner with an analogue beacon to find them if buried - I wouldn't.  The analogue-digital beacon argument ended years ago.  Digitals are hands down better - magnitudes better. 
3) Analogue beacons required the operator to interpret, find and follow the flux line.  Digital beacons make that process almost foul proof for the operator.  The newest use their processing to more directly go to the buried beacon by doing the interpreting internally - but they are still recognizing flux line direction and strength.
3) Without some education on companion rescue and practice, I've seen new users of three antenna beacons struggle a bit during the learning phase - but nothing compared to the difficulty of becoming proficient with an analogue beacon.
4) Digital beacons have allowed both inexperienced and experienced users to quickly located a buried victim, and get about doing what is now recognized as the most critical part of the rescue process - the excavation, the digging out.  Strategic shoveling is the name of that game.  Uneducated shoveling can double or triple excavation times. 
5) So take an AIARE Level 1 class, upgrade your beacon and skills, and learn the latest on companion rescue.  Then your friends will want you with them, you'll be a desired partner, not a liability.
6) I know cost is always a significant consideration.  But if you look around there are usually great deals on some vendor's  two antenna (or 3) digital beacons - usually about the cost of a low to midrange goretex parka.   

I'm not commenting here to rag on anyone, but instead to just share my knowledge and experience. Which comes with the perspective of one who has used most beacons from the first analogue Skadi's (next to worthless), to the most recent 3 antenna's beacons, and as an avalanche educator.

No, I didn't write this up on my Atari.

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  • khyak
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13 years 1 month ago - 13 years 1 month ago #113668 by khyak
Replied by khyak on topic Re: Does this seem dumb to anyone else?
I think it does make sense that at some point an avalanche instructor would draw a line in the sand, and say we aren't going to cover beacons that are x years old, or designate, as they did, a minimum technology.   Personally, I always thought the Ortovox m2 compared favorable with the tracker.   Better range, not as easy to pinpoint.  The tracker and M2 were of the same era, yet the tracker is still sold, while the m2 is apparently garbage.   I do have a right to be grumpy, but I do acknowlege the need to draw a line somewhere.
Last edit: 13 years 1 month ago by khyak.

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  • Chris S
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13 years 1 month ago #113688 by Chris S
Replied by Chris S on topic Re: Does this seem dumb to anyone else?
As another avalanche instructor, and a guide, I'm suspicious of any beacon more than 5 years old. Materials age, and lifetime guarantee is for the reasonable lifetime of the equipment, not you. Stuff gets banged around, you know?

So I recommend that anyone with a beacon more than 5 years old send it in to the manufacturer to be reconditioned and tested. I know that BCA offers this, and I suspect other manufacturers offers this as well. Contact yours.

I refuse to ski with anyone - for work or fun - with a beacon more than 10 years old. Motherboards crack, battery terminals corrode, plastic ages and gets brittle. I'm lucky enough to have an extra beacon that I can loan for instances like this.

One last thought - how old is your cell phone? Granted, it likely costs less, but having your cell phone stop functioning mid-day may cost you a major inconvenience - your transceiver failing may cost you your life, or the life of someone else.

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  • Lowell_Skoog
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13 years 1 month ago #113698 by Lowell_Skoog
Replied by Lowell_Skoog on topic Re: Does this seem dumb to anyone else?

3) Analogue beacons required the operator to interpret, find and follow the flux line.  Digital beacons make that process almost foul proof for the operator.  The newest use their processing to more directly go to the buried beacon by doing the interpreting internally - but they are still recognizing flux line direction and strength.


Minor quibble: Analog beacons don't require you to follow the flux line. You can also search using a grid pattern. That's how they were originally taught, I believe. Flux line search came later, after they started putting displays on beacons. The original analog beacons were operated by listening for volume changes only. I learned how to search that way from Ray Smutek in 1980. He regularly taught his students to find buried beacons in three minutes. (Or was it five minutes--I can't remember, it was so long ago.)

I'm not saying that anybody should use analog beacons today...


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