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Extended Column Test - How to interpret?

  • Jeff_Ward
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14 years 2 weeks ago #99713 by Jeff_Ward
Replied by Jeff_Ward on topic Re: Extended Column Test - How to interpret?

Not sure the "only useful for 1 meter depth" is correct.

See this video.
vimeo.com/35967109

Some scary layers in UT at the present as shown in this ECT.


Nice video Scotsman.

I believe the reason the ECT does not do a good job of testing layers deeper than 1 meter is because it is hard for the energy of the "taps" to reach deeper than 1 meter (much like the weight of a skier).

I'm sure we'll see a "Deep ECT" similar to a "Deep Tap Test" at some point in the near future. avalancheinfo.net/ASARC/DeepTapTest.pdf

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  • Scotsman
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14 years 2 weeks ago #99716 by Scotsman
Replied by Scotsman on topic Re: Extended Column Test - How to interpret?

Nice video Scotsman.

I believe the reason the ECT does not do a good job of testing layers deeper than 1 meter is because it is hard for the energy of the "taps" to reach deeper than 1 meter (much like the weight of a skier). 

I'm sure we'll see a "Deep ECT" similar to a "Deep Tap Test" at some point in the near future.  avalancheinfo.net/ASARC/DeepTapTest.pdf


Hi Jeff,
Well that's the conventional wisdom but look at the video again. The problem it UT at the moment is a deep PWL that many have assumed( to their detriment) was deep enough to be "bridged". The ECT in the video is 1.65 M deep and the taps produce a shear at my guess about 1.15 to 1.2 M down..... exactly the result the testers where looking for and worried about.
If they had just dug a 1 M ECT, the Q1 at 1.2M would not have been evident???
Maybe for these type of instabilities a deeper ECT can be revealing.

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  • Micah
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14 years 2 weeks ago #99721 by Micah

Maybe for these type of instabilities a deeper ECT can be revealing.


True enough, but that's a lot different from the assertion that the ECT is a good way to test layers below 1 m.... I bet the 1 m was chosen as a 'conservative' estimate -- along the lines "if you're interested in deep instabilities, ECT may not be the way to go".

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  • Jeff_Ward
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14 years 2 weeks ago #99722 by Jeff_Ward
Replied by Jeff_Ward on topic Re: Extended Column Test - How to interpret?
I'm sure in very unstable snowpacks, like the one in the Wasatch right now, the ECT could produce results below 1 meter, as shown in this video. I'm guessing that the forecasters in the Wasatch are describing the problem well and people are aware of this deeper instability, which would warrant deeper snowpack tests. The one concern I would have is if someone dug that same test pit, did an ECT and did not get a result, and then thought they were dealing with a stable snowpack.

In my experience, many tests on layers that deep can be unreliable (deep tap tests and propagation saw tests seem to fair better at depth). Hopefully people are looking at the bigger picture and not basing their decisions solely on snowpack tests.

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  • Scotsman
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14 years 2 weeks ago - 14 years 2 weeks ago #99723 by Scotsman
Replied by Scotsman on topic Re: Extended Column Test - How to interpret?

True enough, but that's a lot different from the assertion that the ECT is a good way to test layers below 1 m.... I bet the 1 m was chosen as a 'conservative' estimate -- along the lines "if you're interested in deep instabilities, ECT may not be the way to go".


I never made the assertion that the ECT was a "good way" but as this video shows, it can be revealing and " useful "for these sort of conditions. I was surprised by how well it worked in the video and that was my point and question.

What test, other than a deep tap test would be a "good way" to test for deep instabilities?
If you remember last year and our MLK layer that got very deep, and then revealed itself in some huge( ANFO assisted ) slides last year at Crystal......one of the  hot topics for discussion last season between my BC buddies was how well that layer was bridged and how to test for it so deep down. Some never trusted it and stayed off the big stuff all year...others continued to test the top 4ft with CT's and hand shears and "hoped" the MLK was sufficiently bridged and skied the bigger stuff if this relatively "shallow" layer showed a good result in line with observed stability( no naturals, good temps  etc,)

Even though forecasters can spell out a deep PWL in their forecasts....the question of "is it deep enough to be bridged" seems to be causing a lot of the troubles in UT at the moment amongst the avid. The concept of deep enough to be bridged seems a fallacy in UT at the moment as the video and their "tall" ECT shows.
Last edit: 14 years 2 weeks ago by Scotsman.

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  • CookieMonster
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14 years 2 weeks ago #99735 by CookieMonster
Replied by CookieMonster on topic Re: Extended Column Test - How to interpret?
If the snowpack is producing avalanches then bridging isn't happening. It's just another rationalisation.

Desire is the root of all suffering.

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