Crystal Mountain Uphill Travel

I agree with Good2Go, this is like dog chasing its tail;
WA State Law protects the right of ski area closures, which answers the question in the USFS Permit.
app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=79A.45.070
'Skiing in an area or trail closed to the public—Penalty.
A person is guilty of a misdemeanor if the person knowingly skis in an area or on a ski trail, owned or controlled by a ski area operator, that is closed to the public and that has signs posted indicating the closure.'
[ 2011 c 276 § 1.]

As far as I know there is no case law denying public access when ski areas have closures going against the ski areas because the law and the lease permit support their decisions.

Permanent closures at Crystal such as 'the Waterfall' have two fatalities and Rock Face is an unstable zone above the only easy run down Kelly's Gap Road, so there is history of denying public access for safety.

I would be interested to see exactly where in the Constitution, its Amendments, the Federalist Papers, and/or any Supreme Court decisions that state the public has unobstructed access to public lands that have been to private entities providing public recreation services.

As for Commercial Use, every time a client/customer signs up for a trip they have a right to ask about our safety record and when they sign a waiver they are informed of the risks. If you read all 13 listed Hazards and Risks then hopefully you are informed and in a court these need to proved against negligence of the company and its employees. Most people may not read the entire list, which includes(#13) Fatigue, Lack of Coordination and ability to follow instructions, which seems to be the case here.

See Content of Waiver below:

Please read and be certain you understand the implications of signing. Express assumption of Risk Associated with Mountaineering, Climbing, and Related Activities. I, do hereby affirm and acknowledge that I have been fully informed of the inherent hazards and risks associated with Mountaineering, Rock Climbing, Ski Touring and Indoor Climbing activities, transportation of equipment related to the activities, and traveling to and from activities sites of which I am about to engage in. Inherent hazards and risks include but are not limited to: 1. Risk of injury from the activity and equipment utilized in Mountaineering, Rock Climbing and Indoor Climbing is significant including the potential for permanent disability and death. 2. Possible equipment failure and/or malfunction of my own or others' equipment. 3. My own negligence and/or the negligence of others, including employees, agents, independent contractors or representatives of ________ , including but not limited to operator error. 4. Injury to hands, fingers, feet, and toes, including but not limited to inflammation and/or strain of muscles ligaments and/or tendons, nerve damage or compression, and broken bones. 5. Injury from falling may occur from exposure to high altitude, which may affect judgment and coordination, or from not paying close attention to your climbing or others climbing with or near you. 6. Broken bones, severe injuries to the head, neck, and back which may result in severe physical impairment or even death. 7. Discharge of weapons in or near the area of activity. 8. Cold weather and heat related injuries and illness including but not limited to frostnip, frost bite, heat exhaustion, heat stroke, sunburn, hypothermia, and dehydration. 9. Exposure to outdoor elements, including but not limited to avalanche, rock fall, inclement weather, thunder and lightning, severe and or varied wind, temperature or weather conditions. 10. Attack by or encounter with insects, reptiles, and/or animals. 11. Accidents or illness occurring in remote places where there are no available medical facilities. 12. Fatigue chill, and/or dizziness, which may diminish my/our reaction time and increase the risk of accident. 13. My sense of balance, physical coordination, and ability to follow instructions. *I understand the description of these risks is not complete and that unknown or unanticipated risks may result in injury, illness, or death. Release of Liability, Waiver of Claims and Indemnity Agreement In consideration for being permitted to participate in any way in Mountaineering, Rock Climbing and Indoor Climbing and related activities, I hereby agree, acknowledge and appreciate that: I HEREBY RELEASE AND HOLD HARMLESS WITH RESPECT TO ANY AND ALL INJURY, DISABILITY, DEATH, or loss or damage to person or property, WHETHER CAUSED BY NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE, the following named persons or entities, herein referred to as release. ______ To release the releasees, their officers, directors, employees, representatives, agents, and volunteers, and vessels from liability and responsibility whatsoever and for any claims or causes of action that I, my estate, heirs, survivors, executors, or assigns may have for personal injury, property damage, or wrongful death arising from the above activities whether caused by activity or passive negligence of the releasees or otherwise. By executing the document, I agree to hold the releasees harmless and indemnify them in conjunction with any injury, disability, death, or loss or damage to person or property that may occur as a result of engaging in the above activities. By entering into this Agreement, I am not relying on any oral or written representation or statement made by the releasees, other than what is set forth in this Agreement. This release shall be binding to the fullest extent permitted by law. If any provisions of the release is found to be unenforceable, the remaining terms shall be enforced.

If a ski run is closed to uphill traffic because of extreme crowding on that run, maybe the problem isn't the uphill skier. Maybe the ski area is just selling too many tickets and overcrowding is occurring that is leading to safety concerns.



A good example of greed taking precedence over safety is using Ski Patrol folks to toss bombs instead of spending the money for ava-lanchers. Every time an explosive charge goes off near the human body, the concussion causes the brain to rattle just a bit. long-term exposure leads to brain damage.

www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/sh...les-brain-180957396/

Are the patrolman being fairly compensated for the risks that they incur?  or are they just cannon fodder for the corporate world?

The first statement defies logic, the second shows you don't have a very good understanding of avalanche control and developed ski areas

Stevens Pass was probably using the Mother Of all Avalanche Bombs that morning

maybe you should enlighten me as I'm sure you know more about Bubble brain then I do. Or is it a denial thing like the NFL?

The article you linked about bubble brain clearly states it's just a hypothesis based on test of cells grown from rats

Umm, people spend much more time as obstacles to downhill skiers when skinning uphill than when resting on  runs. And often they spend time in spots where few skiers would stop unless they'd fallen yard-sale style. So there's that difference, for starters...

And those skiers who have passes have agreed to abide by ski area rules or else lose the pass and the right to  be in the  lease area. So  there's that difference between the lift-served skiers and the free-range folks. Calling the two the same is a false equivalence with respect to the uphill travel rules.

Hitting those two fallacies, I lost interest in the apparent diatribe. Fortunately there are plenty of places, even within great sight lines of Crystal, to ski tour well  outside of the ski area boundaries.

go ski.

you shouldn't have to use your brain this much to do it.

concussions from avy control? waiver analysis? uphill within crystal sidecountry while operating on a weekend? you have to be kidding me.

bunch of girly-men bitching on the internet from their condo or cubicle about front country/legal drama. your skis don't care- they just want to go ski. be more like your skis.