"Armchair" touring on a considerable day (12/4/16)

Good discussion!

The normalization of risk can be a tricky genie to get back into the bottle...

I tend to look at ratings as being somewhat location dependant. Like a blue square at one area might be a black at another. Considerable in Washington is not the same as Colorado. Now I could be totally an idiot, and feel to flame on me. However, avalanche awareness in the Rocky Mts seems to be different than In Washington. Our snowpack is a helluva lot safer than those colder interior snowpacks. Due to our safer snowpack, and less avalanche deaths, people are much more complacent about avalanche ratings. We generally do not deal with depth hoar, which can be a season long issue in Colorado or Wyoming. Our avalanche issues are usually much more obvious than a sinister layer that might be several feet deep. Usually our issues are only skin deep. Perhaps a good ski cut might have mitigated that convex rollover on Snoq?

That being said there are plenty of people that are just unaware. Especially at the beginning of the season, when people are excited to get out on new equipment. With more knowledge, comes more fear. With more experience comes more fear. Greg Hill has 8 tips to stay safe, with keep fearful, as one of his guidelines. Only you can judge your risk tolerance.

Terrain management is the key to safe backcountry skiing.

The slope above the dense forest on Snoqualmie always scares me a bit, especially if there are others up there. The terrain is complex... open and steep enough to slide easily, treed enough to make it hard to see partners (and provide big obstacles to hit), lots of different slope angles.

I've been exclusively touring for quite a while now and frequently get out on considerable and high days. It can be easy to get carried away, but I think that it's important to realize that a considerable/high rating doesn't mean you'll cause a slide, jus that the margin for error is smaller and your terrain choices are more limited. With the right attitude, I think that going out on considerable and high days can be a great learning experience as it really forces you to focus on what is and is not safe terrain. After a level 1 and 2 class, I think the best way to improve your skills is to make a focused effort to plan tours for all conditions, and then get out (carefully) in those conditions. Not saying that the choices last weekend we're right or wrong, but that's how I approach the issue personally.

NWAC listed avy danger as "considerable" at all elevations, with concerns about wind slabs and storm slabs. www.nwac.us/avalanche-forecast/avalanche-forecast/631/
1.5-2.5'+ feet of new snow fell throughout the area

Its almost always considerable here in the PNW. Considerable rating is just one element of instability of many to look for.

Love seeing folks have a good time. But sometimes I'm fearful all the good vibes, skiing was awesome without mention of what went into groups feeling comfortable to step into avy terrain sends an incomplete and potentially dangerous message to the interweb viewing masses.

would it be equally dangerous to say you felt comfortable when in fact you got lucky?

I've been exclusively touring for quite a while now and frequently get out on considerable and high days. It can be easy to get carried away, but I think that it's important to realize that a considerable/high rating doesn't mean you'll cause a slide, jus that the margin for error is smaller and your terrain choices are more limited. With the right attitude, I think that going out on considerable and high days can be a great learning experience as it really forces you to focus on what is and is not safe terrain. After a level 1 and 2 class, I think the best way to improve your skills is to make a focused effort to plan tours for all conditions, and then get out (carefully) in those conditions. Not saying that the choices last weekend we're right or wrong, but that's how I approach the issue personally.

Same here. The reduced margin for error and extra discipline needed are key elements. Some would argue that those two elements alone are enough to merit a day on the lifts or the couch. Others not so much.

If you're going to say you'd never tour on a high danger day, don't be so arrogant to think that riding a lift and staying within ropes excludes you from avy risk. Doing so rationally reduces your exposure to risk, but doesn't eliminate it any more than touring mature trees without overhead exposure does. Yet people howl at others who tour low-angle trees on high or considerable days, but then charge all over the resort on the same day.

The touring option on that day absolutely requires a bit more planning, knowledge and discipline, but with those things in place, it's quite possible that the objective risk is about the same as skiing Central that day.

If you just toured Gold Hills at Crystal on Sunday, is that OK? What if the Yodelin old growth was in?

Better or worse than skiing near ropes anywhere at Crystal that day? Is a "controlled" and skier-compacted Powder Bowl that much safer to hang out at the bottom of (hello Lucky Shot) than your favorite old-growth stash that doesn't have open slopes above it?

I doubt it, but everyone is different.

But we usually assume people are either morons or not as experienced as we are and resort to scare tactics almost immediately, out of understandable laziness. It's easier to just say "don't ever tour on a considerable day" than express all the nuance involved with touring in relative safety on a day with elevated risk or in an area with greater exposure to risk to someone whose experience isn't clear.

Maybe that's the right call for the internet, but it's a very reductive one for real life. It's same thing as your parents telling you to never drink or do drugs ...then they do.

That's the risk of this approach. "Official" stomping of feet and yelling "NEVER NEVER NEVER" and then 20 reports about how rad it was, including one from you.