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Possible new pay parking policy at Mt. Baker

  • Randito
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9 years 11 months ago - 9 years 11 months ago #226261 by Randito

Randy, I think you are making a broad assumption here.
Just because it's public land does not mean that the public has unfettered access no mater what. Ski areas operate under a seasonal use permit, managing that resource and setting the rules and restrictions for use relative to those agreements.


Yes -- and almost all ski area Special Use Permits on USFS land don't allow the ski area operator to generally exclude the public from the permit area.   

Alpental does have a policy of disallowing travel within the permit area outside of operating hours -- but that restriction is due to safety concerns stemming from the extensive use of explosives for snow control within the permit area.  Granola powered uphill travel is permitted during operating hours.

Similarly the tubing area at Summit Central is limited to ticket holders -- for similar safety related issues.

Almost all ski areas exclude the use of snow machines and sleds by the public from the special use permit area -- again for safety related reasons.

It is certainly within USFS regulatory authority to grant a Special Use Permit that limits public access -- I just don't believe that Mt Baker's Special Use Permit currently has such a provision for the upper parking lot.   If the USFS was considering amending the current special use permit with such a proviso going forward -- I would certainly expect that there be a public comment period before making a "record of decision" on the new special use permit.   

So far I know of no such process having happened -- do you have any information to the contrary ?

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  • Gregg_C
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9 years 11 months ago - 9 years 11 months ago #226267 by Gregg_C
Yes -- and almost all ski area Special Use Permits on USFS land don't allow the ski area operator to generally exclude the public from the permit area.   

Alpental does have a policy of disallowing travel within the permit area outside of operating hours -- but that restriction is due to safety concerns stemming from the extensive use of explosives for snow control within the permit area.    Granola powered uphill travel is permitted during operating hours.

Similarly the tubing area at Summit Central is limited to ticket holders -- for similar safety related issues.

Almost all ski areas exclude the use of snow machines and sleds by the public from the special use permit area -- again for safety related reasons.

It is certainly within USFS regulatory authority to grant a Special Use Permit that limits public access -- I just don't believe that Mt Baker's Special Use Permit currently has such a provision for the upper parking lot.   If the USFS was considering amending the current special use permit with such a proviso going forward -- I would certainly expect that there be a public comment period before making a "record of decision" on the new special use permit.   

So far I know of no such process having happened -- do you have any information to the contrary ?


I have spoken with several people at the Sedro Wooley MB Forest Service Office about this assertion by Howat that he will be charging people to park at the upper lot if they are not paying customers.  All of them expressed serious doubts that this was something that was approved of and moving forward.  Still waiting to hear back from the field supervisor for the ski area for confirmation.  There are some dramatic changes in the backcountry in the last ten years.  An explosion of users (snow shoers, new backcountry converts) is rapidly changing the paradigm of a 99% of the ski area users and 1% hippy backcountry skiers.  The forest service loves seeing non-ski area reacreationalists while the ski area obviously sees a threat to the bottom line and their hold an a big segment of the public.  Growth in the ski industry in all areas is flat.  The backcountry growth is whipping along at 20% per year. this doesn't include the masses of snow shoers. Do the math, (I am sure Mt. Baker has), and you can see where this is heading.

I had a long talk with one of the field workers today.  He shared with me that ski areas all over the (Alpental especially) state are complaining about non-paying customers using up parking spaces.  No where has the Forest Service allowed them to set up a parking system just for non-paying customers. 

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  • andyski
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9 years 11 months ago #226270 by andyski
So, you mean that something someone on a message board heard might not be an actual, real proposal? *Shock*

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  • aaron_wright
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9 years 11 months ago #226271 by aaron_wright
Replied by aaron_wright on topic Re: Possible new pay parking policy at Mt. Baker
Isn't the 20% growth in backcounty users based on sales of gear? Most of those people will never step outside the ski area boundaries. Judging by the number of people skiing inbounds on plate and tech bindings with AT boots and "bc" skis, I would have guessed a higher percentage.

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  • Jim Oker
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9 years 11 months ago - 9 years 11 months ago #226276 by Jim Oker
I don't know the answer to the source of the 20% stat, but that sounds likely, Aaron. However, significantly more folks are starting to get that gear away from the lifts too - in my limited experience so far this season it's been mostly at the really obvious and popular access points including two mentioned in this thread - saw TONS of folks on my one trip each to tour from the upper Baker lot (late November) and from the upper Alpental lot (sometime in January), as well as multiple folks who seemed to be pretty fresh to the sport touring up out of Paradise on this past Thursday. I've had multiple workmates recently tell me about finally taking that AT or splitboard gear out away from the lifts just this season. On top of the increase in folks taking up BC skiing/boarding as well as slowshoeing and XC skiing, we also are seeing population growth in both the Puget Sound area as well as up in Bellingham continuing apace ( www.psrc.org/assets/13311/RSC2-18-16Grow...n.pdf?processed=true and fortress.wa.gov/esd/employmentdata/repor...atcom-county-profile and worth noting that a Bellingham realtor claimed to me recently that there's been a BIG uptick in outside interest in Bellingham over the past year or so in particular and that it is accelerating not slowing - she mentioned folks from CA who are starting to think more about climate and who are now able to work remotely via computer/internet as one particularly big contingent of house buyers).

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  • Randito
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9 years 11 months ago #226297 by Randito
Running a ski area is a marginally profitable enterprise.  It is the crowded holiday and weekend days in Jan and Feb that put them in the black.  Beer sales in the pub are an important profit center, in lieu of a parking fee how a two drink minimum? 

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