How tight do you fit your shells?

Note on shell fit -- since you mentioned $$$ boots -- "rando race" class boots use a much thinner liner than a boot like the Mastrale.

If your shells are bit large -- you might be able to make them work using fitting pads from Tognar www.tognar.com/boot_heater_warmer_fittin...s_ski_snowboard.html

Quantifying shell fit in terms of fingers is pretty vague unless you define your finger thickness; fingers vary a lot from person to person and don't necessarily correlate to foot or body size. Millimeters (or inches) makes more sense, though it's hard to fit a ruler between your heel and the end of a ski boot shell.

I think a 10-15mm shell fit in an alpine boot is great for expert level skiers who know what they're getting into. Less demanding skiers are often fine with a 15-20mm fit. 30mm (two of my fingers) is pretty big for most everyone who cares about how well they ski. FWIW, I measure out a bit over 27.5 on a Brannock scale and use a 26.5 alpine boot.

I think a boot that's entirely or primarily intended for touring should have a slightly more relaxed fit - somewhere between 20mm and 30mm is usually what I shoot for, depending on the length of the foot (a 30mm shell fit for a 29.5 mondo foot is probably OK, but not a 22.5). Depending on the last of the boot, I'll pick either a 26.5 or a 27.5 (I wear a 26.5 Scarpa, which breaks on the half size, so it uses the same shell as a 27.0, but a 27.5 in most Dynafit boots).

When I bought my Maestrales, the guy helping me had me convinced I should go with a 28.5 based on the two finger technique. They felt really good and this jived with my 10.5 street shoe size. The 28s, on the other hand, felt way too snug. I was about to pull the trigger on the 28.5 when another sales guy walked by and said casually, "better off with the 28s." I spent another hour trying and retrying and eventually ended up with the 28s and they have been the best boot I have ever owned. So, two things:

1) Talk to lots of different sales guys and try the boot on in at least two different stores to assure you get lots of perspectives on fit.
2) Your always safer downsizing because a good fitter can make more room. He cannot make your foot bigger.

To the OP: Most shops like to know when something you purchased from them isn't working out for you. Even if you wouldn't shop there again, giving feedback can help elevate the level of service the shop can offer the next guy.

Finger fit's are a good way to make a "no-go" call on a boot, but they're no assurance that the boot will fit either as you're only accounting for length.

I basically look for these four things when fitting AT boots:

1. In ski mode, buckled as you would for skiing, are you heels held down firmly? If you're getting heel lift there is no way the boots will work for you long term. Heel lift = can't get your weight forward to ski properly

2. Tight, but not too tight fit in around calf - If you have gaps by your shin or calf when you flex forward or back you're going to have a hard time getting force into the ski. Picture a sloppy old ford with 15 or 20 degrees of play in the steering wheel, that's your leg.

3. "firm handshake" around the midfoot - no "dead fish" or "nuckle crusher" fits, you're basically fitting a mountaineering boot.

4. TOE ROOM - You're buying AT boots, not race plugs, and this sport is all about compromises, in fact, its basically two different sports. You ski a bit, but 80% of the time you're hiking, and need a hiking boot. You'd never buy a hiking boot in the summer with you're toes crushed into the front, so you shouldn't fit your AT boots that way in the winter. The ideal feet seems to have you're toes just feeling the front in an unmolded boot, once molded, you'll get just enough space to be comfortable but not so much that it's sloppy.

Some other thoughts:

A good boot PUNCHER can make a boot bigger, but a good boot fitter will get you in the right AT boot without having to do much beyond molding the liners. If you have to punch your way out of a problem in an AT boot, there is a pretty good chance you're in the wrong boot. Obvious exceptions for people with unusual feet; bunions, bone spurs, etc.

Don't sweat the half sizes, they're actually the same as the whole sizes: 26 and 26.5 share a shell, 27 and 27.5 share a shell. Scarpa is the only exception, they change on the half size, so in Scarpa 26.5 and 27 are the same shell and 27.5 and 28 are the same shell.

Measure your feet in an unweighted and weighted position. If there is a big difference (half size or more), you probably would benefit from some type of arch support and might even be able to comfortably get into a smaller shell size with that support.

If you require more than two fingers to close the boot buckles to a snug level, there is a decent chance that you're in a boot with too much volume (even if it is the right length). The top ultralock buckle on dynafits is a good exception to this rule though.

It has been my experience that I might swim in my TLT5 Mountains one day and be cramped the next.  One feature of the TLT5s is a wide toe box to reduce forefoot constriction and to maintain warmth.  This wide toe box, IMHO, also allows the relatively narrow  instep area to act as a pivot point, allow the foot to move around if the heel is not well seated.  So as my OEM liners packed out, I would sometimes find my feet "swimming".  Wearing a thin sock (thick socks tend to compound the sensation of looseness) and using the forefoot buckle to hold the heel in the heel pocket has worked for me to eliminate the feeling of swimming.  I picked this tip up from discussions on TG and advice given by one of the boot's designers (Frederico).  So forefoot buckle adjustment is critical--too loose and the foot swims, too tight and there can be pressure on the nerve on the top of the forefoot--this can be avoided during boot fitting by placing a neoprene stringer on top of the foot before thermofitting.  One way to customize fit is with bontex shims (available from Tognar listed above and provided with my boots) that can reduce volume and thereby forefort tightness for a given notch in the buckle.  FWIW, I initially used a shim on one foot, but not on the other.  Obviously if the liner packs out, it is time for new liners; I was able to extend my liner life by adding Sole footbeds and by reheating the liners with the footbeds too.  My Mountain liner lasted about 100 days; I've heard people complaining about the Performance thermofit liner after just a few days; one called it a wet sock.  I have piano leg legs; even with a packed liner I could only get into the second notch on the top buckle a couple of times; only on one foot on the forefoot buckle. When my liners packed out, I bought a pair of Intuition Pro tours--they would not work with the size of my ankles and calves, but with modification, worked for "Chicken Legs" Lou Dawson and his wife; I ended buying AT touring liners from Palau from France (spendy).  I would like to get a TLT6 Mountain liner to try.  In any case, a really good bootfitter can help with all of this; too many shop guys claim to be good bootfitters and they are not; evidently they don't get good feedback and may get praise from people who naturally get a good fit (like the OP's Mom).  The shop the OP went to also mis-mounted bindings on 2 pairs of skis for me.  FWIW, I have a wide foot (wearing D to EEE hiking boots) size 11.25, MP29 have fit me well in Zzero3, Zzero4, Zzeus, and TLT5 despite the relative narrowness of the 5s (initial 2-3 day liner break in was rough).  So, OP, check with a good bootfitter to see if your shells are a proper size and if they are, what liner/liner modifications/footbeds/shims might help.  He might say buy Vulcans. Good Luck.

1 finger for everything telemark, AT and alpine. It's worth the shell work in my opinion. Loose boots don't work once the liners pack in, after that your breaking in your foot or trying to add filler to take up the room and that is temporary, fit the shell to your foot or fight it as the filler packs down.

Loose boots suck for everyone, just some just can't tell...... Yet.