How warm is rando-race clothing?

Thanks for the replies!

I'd known about Dane's Coldthistle site, but hadn't seen this review : coldthistle.blogspot.com/2013/06/camp-co...taineering-race.html

Yes..exactly.!.. I saw that review and pic of Dane in full resplendent eurotrash skimo costume and thought you'd like it.
Totally impracticable for normal PNW winter IMO ( unless you pick a cold, dry day) but Ok for PNW spring.

Ypou may want to combine the skimo suit with these anti-fart underwear....for those behind you in the skintrack since you will be ahead all the time now!

www.thespec.com/news-story/4192386-high-...-filters-flatulence/

you'll be fine as long as you don't stop. this is a style i endorse for the hot ladies too.
b

Seconded

I was intrigued by the possibility of cutting a pound or more out of my gear by adopting clothing tactics from the race world.

Hi Charlie.  I think Brandon covered the important  part if you want to drop weight.  "If weight savings is the goal, bigger gains, or losses I should say, could be achieved through lighter skis, boots, bindings."

Huge gains to be had in the hardware first.  If you are a modern Troglodyte pretending to be all back country hip fast and light on a pair of heavy Mercuries for example, Dynafit TLT RAD FLs and a pair of 112mm x 190 under your feet lycra isn't going to be any help.  Soft shell pants and a hard shell top of one kind or another is a better answer for that set up.  I lift and side/c ski in something similar all winter.  Perfect set of kit for my own use.

I took a cue the previous season and then at Vertfest last year in the nasty weather but had the point driven home on Rainer watching successive  speed runs in person this summer by first the Canadians then the Utah boys and finally Brian and my own trip.   Good weather or bad, lycra works just fine.  But it has a few limitations worth noting.

My lwt gear (ski/boot and binders)  are 4# 6oz per foot with a 80mm under foot,  Up only 4 oz on full race gear.   Pleanty good for anything off Rainier or any other peak in the NW/Europe that I am capable of skiing, steep or any distance.

More here on a lighter skis, same boots and bindings..
coldthistle.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-inc...htness-of-being.html

>How warm are ski-mo race tights compared with mid-weight softshells?

I used the Arcteryx Gamma LT soft shell pant a lot in the mountains including some damn cold temps. -30C is common with a decent base layer or may be two.  It is almost lycra by weight.   Any decent lycra tight is close/ the same for wind protection and warmth IMO.  Really depends on what you layer with I think to get the warmth you require.

I also alpine ski a lot in Patagonia's alpine guide pants...which i find too warm for my use while touring.  It is a mid weight soft shell.  Gamma LT is by far my favorite climbing and skimo pant short of lycra.   

>Do they hold up to rain/sleet?

Not as good as a heavy pair of soft shells.  But not far off either.  There is no DWR generally on Lycra.  Lycra is made to breath and block the wind.  They do insualte while wet and break the wind still.  Few things dry faster.

>Would I want warm pants in my pack as backup/survival gear on winter days?

If you take a lot of "backup/survival gear on winter days"  Lycra is probably not for you.   The real advantages to lycra is  in a very high energy output mode.   If you have lycra bike or running gear that you use 
consistantly I would encourage you to try an of the while on skis.  Just do it in a comfortable setting with soem back up to see what you think.

There are ski-mo specifci shells. But if I want a shell I generally really want a shell. Not just a garbage bag layer to keep me alive.

>Are the race suits warm-enough when the PNW precip is dumping?

Dumping?  No.  Typical snowing, foggy, raining, windy, OK for skiing and not so OK weather?  Sure.  Used the Moment Pant and some kind of top many long days (8 plus hours)  out like that.  Same days everyone else is all bundled up, sweating and wet on the ski tracks.  Lycra..or at least the right thickness of lycra/soft shell clothing has a much bigger temperture spectrum of use than what you would think.

Funny comments by some, but obviously not everyone commenting has actually used this kind of clothing for skiing. 

Most here know the tour around Chair.   I do it often now and always in lycra of various sorts, or a lwt soft shell pant and a wind shell on top.  Most typical insulation is a Patagonia nano puff which most of the time will be in the pack. It is a full day out for me generally, rain or shine.

>I feel like I'd get pretty cold with just a base layer when things are piling up

You will, if it is laying down a couple of inches an hour of heavy wet snow.  No question likely not the right choice in clothing.  But then a hard shell is going to be required prior to  that anyway isn't it?  And what you'll be skiing for terrian will drop as fast as the snow does.   Lycra is back country ski gear, weather dependant but it is not lift ski gear unless the sun is out and the wind is still.

>(or if skiing through a bunch of pow).

I have skied lycra in Utah powder.  The Dorias brothers and a slew of Wasatch/Teton guys do on a daily basis.   Lycra is proven in pow and nasty weather.  Takes two minutes sorting through any of the European multiday ski-mo races or NA skimo blogs to realise how just how good the clothing really is. 

> I sometimes wear a bike jersey when touring, and really like it; breathable, but wind-resistant.

then ya already got the whole idea...it works if you need it or can take advantage of it

>Do the stretchier materials get shredded when you're skiing trees?

In general No.  Ever seen what a bad bike crash does to anyone in lycra?  Nasty road rash but many time the lycra comes out way betetr than expected.  Skin underneath isn't as tough as the lycra. LWT soft shells hold up amazingly well obviously.  I've taken two nasty falls on hard spring snow in lycra and the lycra was fine...me not so much.

>"Totally impracticable for normal PNW winter"

Ya that?  It's nonsense.  Proven wrong in literally every mountain range where you can get a latte;D   And in some you can't get a latte so easily!

Thanks for the reply, Dane. I'm already a convert to the ways of light skis, bindings, and boots. All of them, in my lightest setup, are as light as I can afford.

Only one quibble: I happily wear softshell pants when it's snowing >1"/hr. I only switch to a hard shell on my legs if precip is really wet/liquid.

Uphilling, I'm generally in a base layer, but I don't want to screw around with pant variations through the day; whatever I wear from the car needs to work all day, including optional snow study, etc. I don't dig often, but I don't want my clothing to limit my decision-making when it's warranted, nor to be useless in a rescue scenario because I'm cold.

My pack almost always contains whatever I think I need to spend a suffering night out.

Thanks for all the advice, everyone; I think I'm getting the picture that the race-like gear is optimal for moving fast when the weather isn't terrible. If some turns up cheap, perhaps I'll give it a spin this season.

(P.S. Thanks, Dane, for introducing me to the Flash 18. I hope that everyone who sews them gets to see some of the places their packs have travelled.)

"my lightest setup, are as light as I can afford."

Yep, that is the killer...as light as *I could afford*.  Stuff is crazy expensive even compared to bike and Porsche parts. Took three years for me to get where I wanted to be for weight.  Hope all the chatter helps some.  No sense reinventing the wheel.   Glad you like the Flash,  Great piece of kit!

FWIW I just found another soft shell pant I really like from Mountain Equipement,   Rivals or betters the Gamma LT and generally seen for $100 or less on sale,  Used them last few weeks with my lwt gear and really, really like them for skiing/booting.  A good step up from tights for weather protection.  And a quick trip through a hot drier gets the DWR back in tune.

Looking forward to some more snow...Muir is getting old

My pack always contains whatever I think I need to spend a suffering night out..........
And to hang out somewhere for a while and just enjoy being there. And be warm............
I carry Marmot side-zip, insulated overpants throughout the winter, really nice to put on before that last run all the way to the valley bottom where all the cold air is settling in midwinter, and your socks are a little damp................and be warm.......
I also recommend at least a puffy hood or a VERY warm hat. I carry a neck gaiter of some sort that functions as a light weight hat until I need more.
When it is dumping and the slightest bit wet on the way up, I like to flip my hooded shell up & over my head AND pack then tie or velcro the sleeves in front of me. A breathable, waterproof baseball cap bill keeps the hood from dropping over my eyes. This keeps snow from between pack and back and may even keep you warm and dry in your lycra. (I'll probably stick with wool)

You don't have to be all that far out to be in real trouble with an injury, lost ski, or sudden illness! Far harder to stay warm if you can't move except for shivering, or you gave up a layer to someone else who is.

I guess I prefer to ski more by getting out more and staying out later, and slow down (a little) and enjoy being out there rather than rush around and out just to stay warm.

Don't forget firestarter!