Changes at Mt Rainier -- road closed Tues, Weds

Today, March 5, the road from Longmire to Paradise is closed to the public. And what appears to be a guide service van and trailer is unloading in the parking lot.

Ugh.

Today, March 5, the road from Longmire to Paradise is closed to the public. And what appears to be a guide service van and trailer is unloading in the parking lot.

Ugh.

Yeah, it totally pisses me off too when guided groups have access to Paradise while the road is closed to the public -- even on a miserable rainy day like today when I'd never want to be up there. After reading your post, I decided to check my saved webcam images and see WTF was going on.

But -- in this case, I think you might be mistaken that they were "unloading in the parking lot" -- they appear to be loading only. The webcam clearly shows the guide service van and trailer covered with about 1-2 ft of snow, which indicates that it had been parked up at Paradise for several days (there has been no measurable snowfall in at least 10 days since February 23 at Longmire or below, while Paradise got about 30" the past 4 days). The group arrives in the parking lot, someone goes and gets the guide service van and trailer, and the group loads up. After it departs, there is a large amount of snow from the roof of the vehicle left behind in the parking lot.

So in this case, it appears that they had no more access than any member of the public would have if they had camped overnight for several days with their vehicle parked at Paradise, then returned to their vehicle and left on a day that the road was closed to the public. At least, that's what the webcam images below appear to indicate, which would make today's event a total non-issue. I realize that guided groups still do appear to have access recently sometimes when the road is closed (despite the MRNP superintendent's assurances to the contrary), but this does not appear to be an example of that.

Images at 10 minute intervals from 10:40 to 11:10 AM, March 5:
[size=small](click any image for full-size 1920x1080 HD version)[/size]

Going up or down doesn't matter. Here's exactly what Randy told me:

"The answer to your second question is, no, access to Paradise will not be available to the park's guide services when the road is otherwise closed to public vehicle access."

He didn't say they can drive down but not up. He said 'no access'.

A thing I've noticed with the current staff down there is that they have a strong tendency to tell people what they want to hear (at times telling different people conflicting stories), and then they go do whatever they want. *This* is precisely why I've declined all their "Come on down and let's have a chat" offers- my communication with them is all in writing.

Going up or down doesn't matter. Here's exactly what Randy told me:

"The answer to your second question is, no, access to Paradise will not be available to the park's guide services when the road is otherwise closed to public vehicle access."

He didn't say they can drive down but not up. He said 'no access'.

No, I think you missed my point completely. Going down is the key. Everyone (including you, me, or the guide services) is able to leave Paradise and drive down on days when the road is unexpectedly closed by weather or staffing or whatever (road conditions permitting of course, i.e. unless impossible due to deep unplowed snow). As long as they are already parked up there first.

If you had gotten down to Paradise today from a multiday summit attempt, would you sit and wait beside the parking lot for days until the road was open to the public, or just get in your car and drive down? (And how would you even know that the road was closed to the public, there's no easy way to tell when you come down to Paradise to an empty lot on a miserable rainy day.) What should the guided group (or any private party camped up there the last few days) do after they get back down to the parking lot today, sit and wait for days until the road is open to the public? Of course not. People should get their vehicles and drive down if conditions are safe enough in their judgement. Or do you think the guided groups should be stuck up there because of what Randy said, even though you and other private parties are free to drive down?

I agree with you that guided groups should have no access to Paradise when the road is closed to the public, but if they are accessing Paradise by walking down to it from where they have camped, then allowing them to get in their vehicles and leave seems entirely reasonable.

better be able to get out.
b

And after a lovely foot of right side up snow... that's right, no gate opening. "Due to heavy snow, avalanche, and minimal staffing." NWAC says considerable across the entire WA/OR cascades; I guess NPS knows better...