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Tree well inversion rescue video

  • Lowell_Skoog
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14 years 1 month ago #203090 by Lowell_Skoog
Replied by Lowell_Skoog on topic Re: Tree well inversion rescue video
One thing that puzzles me is why we've heard so much about tree well incidents during the past, say, ten years. To be honest, the first time I ever heard about such an incident was in the earlier days of snowboarding, maybe 10-15 years ago. It seemed like the incidents at that time mostly involved snowboarders. Now it's happening to all sorts of sliders.

Of course there are more people in the mountains these days, but it seems like we should have heard of incidents like this at least occasionally in the old days. (It would be interesting to ask Paul Baugher about this. He's the Expert in my book.)

I suspect that it's related to fat boards making soft snow more accessible. I know somebody's going to say that I'm always making up historical trends, but it seems to me that this is a real one. Am I imagining it?

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  • markharf
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14 years 1 month ago - 14 years 1 month ago #203091 by markharf
Replied by markharf on topic Re: Tree well inversion rescue video
Jeff, if there's a body of commentary on this video indicating what was done right, what was done wrong, and what would have made a better rescue....can we hear more about it?  Read it for ourselves somewhere?  I'm finding it frustrating to hear that the video "was circulated around the Canadian ski guide community last year" for long enough to achieve consensus in the absence of any further details.

I went in a tree well once.  It happened so fast I don't think it would've mattered where I was holding my hands or how I was skiing at the time.  I was able to walk my hands up the wee little tree trunk until I was clear of the snow, but it exhausted me and I knew I'd been lucky.  This was about 10 or 12 years ago, and although I'd only been skiing a couple of years at the time I was sure aware of tree well safety before this happened.

Like others, I'm not impressed with the "teamwork" on display, and I sure wouldn't be advertising my corporate consulting business using this video. 

Edit to add: I remember seeing a video of Ben Manfredi (I think) skiing into a tree well, and my memory is of an outstanding skier totally in control who within a split second was upside down with his skis on the surface next to a tree. It's possible that it's hard to imagine how quickly this happens unless you're looking directly at it.

Mark

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  • RonL
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14 years 1 month ago #203092 by RonL
Replied by RonL on topic Re: Tree well inversion rescue video
Ha, he does seem a little too, I don't know.... business casual? I really don't know what the best avoidance strategy is for this other than giving trees a bit of personal space on big days. I have fallen into a couple and to add support to Lowells next alt-history novel it was on the snowboard rather than skiing. I was able to extract myself with some struggle and power swearing. In hindsight it seemed similar to getting a tire off the highway on a soft shoulder and being surprised at how easy it was to flip the car - tho I have only done that once. There is likely a safe distance to maintain that would mitigate the risk. It might be worth doing a perimeter check of tree wells throughout the season on firm snow days so that one has a sense of how close to the trunk presents a hazardous zone.

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  • Lowell_Skoog
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14 years 1 month ago - 14 years 1 month ago #203095 by Lowell_Skoog
Replied by Lowell_Skoog on topic Re: Tree well inversion rescue video

[size=10pt]Last year there were more tree well fatalities in the Canadian mechanized ski industry than avalanche fatalities.[/size]


That's a remarkable statement. What does "mechanized ski industry mean? Does it mean chairlifts only, or also include cat skiing and helicopters?

Here are some good references about snow immersion accidents:

Paul Baugher (2007):
www.nwac.us/media/uploads/pdfs/Non-avala...rsion_fatalities.pdf

Christopher Van Tilburg (2010):
www.docwild.net/files/WEM63.pdf

Here's a quote from the introduction in Paul Baugher's article:

[size=10pt]... in the period from 1985-1995 the NARSID risk was ten times greater than the risk of an avalanche burial at a U.S. ski area. This study shows that between 1990/91 and 2005/06, the risk of NARSID at U.S. ski areas has become fifteen times greater. That suggests that this risk trend is steadily increasing.[/size]


Here's another good quote, from Paul's conclusion:

[size=10pt]In bounds avalanche fatalities are virtually disappearing while the trend for out of bounds avalanche has remained relatively flat even though there is much more out of bounds traffic. This reflects diligent ski area risk management efforts in the form of avalanche control, boundary management policies, and robust public education. However, also in the last sixteen years, there has been a trend in risk at U.S. and B.C. ski areas that has remained “under the radar”. This study was designed to investigate; recognition of the risk, key factors in the snow immersion phenomenon, and prevention strategies. The preliminary findings are: The greatest single component of snow immersion risk is that it is substantially underappreciated. The risk of snow immersion accidents (NARSID) is on the increase.... [/size]


So here's my theory: Snow immersion accidents have increased, in part, because of more efficient avalanche control, which is opening deep snow areas sooner than in the past. Also, fat skis and snowboards have made deep snow easier to ski and therefore more attractive. Fat boards also enable recreationists to ski faster because they float better and are easier to turn. The new gear gives skiers and boarders more control, generally, but because they are going faster, they have less time to react, and if they have a close encounter with a tree, they auger in harder.

I'll also throw up a strawman that I'm sure will be controversial. How many skiers and boarders wear helmets, at least in part, because they provide protection in the event of hitting a tree? Of those who do, how many ski faster around trees because of an increased sense of security, due to the helmet?

As Amar said, "Just as with avalanches, the MOST important thing is to avoid creating an accident and becoming a victim at all -- rescue skills and techniques should be secondary. Skiing in a manner to avoid tree well accidents should be a priority." At the risk of sounding like Your Mother, I think the best thing any of us can do to avoid a tree well accident is to slow down.

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  • CookieMonster
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14 years 1 month ago #203097 by CookieMonster
Replied by CookieMonster on topic Re: Tree well inversion rescue video
Mechanized skiing includes chairlifts, rope tows, sleds, cats, and helis. Really any machine will do.

Possibly reliable stats: www.nsaa.org/nsaa/press/facts-ski-snbd-safety.asp

It's impossible to iron out all the risk from mountain sports. I'd guess that most people who die at ski resorts do so on the groomers.

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  • Jonathan_S.
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14 years 1 month ago #203107 by Jonathan_S.
Replied by Jonathan_S. on topic Re: Tree well inversion rescue video
The additional background story on all this (besides the obviously ineffective efforts in general), is that the victim, Leigh (who is an avid but not very well-refined skier in terms of technique), explains he was just skiing along when he hit some sort of snow-covered log or other hidden object, and then went off course into the tree well. (His wife is the first skier who starts off, in a hesitant snow plow, amidst cheers of "let 'em rip girl!".)

The intro and wrap-up, with all the talk about intending to produce a video on avalanche training, are just entirely irrelevant add-ons, although that's obviously pretty, well, obvious.

(BTW, the details are from a NE regional discussion group plus some emails with an acquaintance of some of the participants.)

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