Alaska ski guide buried in avy despite airbag

ya... and now I think I need an avalung too

There's been some great air bag discussions and reviews on Wildsnow.com . Lou and crew have embraced them which as usual means you'll hear about them a lot and how great they are. For myself, I'm unconvinced. I understand there are some good reasons and some good stats but here's the points that I have issues with:

Virtually all the statistics of actual in-field use are from Europe. Their skiing terrain tends to be almost all above treeline. Here in the PNW, just the opposite is the case. I know almost all my in-season turns are made near trees. My concern here is that studies have shown airbag users traveled significantly farther in the slide than those not wearing airbags. When skiing in Switzerland on a wide open glacier this may be no big deal but locally that extra distance makes you that much more likely to hit something. Obviously its a ridiculously small sample set but look at the recent Phantom slide. None of the three victims were fully buried and an airbag wouldn't have helped. If anything the airbag might have made the victims more likely to travel a greater distance with the slide, perhaps taking them through the trees below or over the cliff band that I believe Marcus just narrowly avoided going over as it was.

My second concern is I guess more with the stats used to support airbags. The studies don't and can't make any differentiation between victims that would have died whether they were wearing an airbag or not. Lots of victims that aren't wearing an airbag still survive or if not their death had nothing to do with not wearing an air bag. Arriving at this conclusion takes a little closer examination of the stats as obviously no avy bag manufacturer is going to try and lead to that point.

My last gripe is the weight and to a lesser exten the cost. The weight trade-off for these bags means people might be less likely to have a well supplied "Oh Shit Kit" for when things go wrong. Sure the right drugs and a couple Voile straps don't weigh much but a small bivy pad, an extra layer or two, a little extra food, more water, all that stuff adds up fast. If I'm wearing an avy bag pack I'm probably less likely to find space for that stuff.

Again, I'm not completely against these packs, I just think for me at least I need more information before I'm ready to commit.

Those are some really good points to ponder, Baltoro

Obviously its a ridiculously small sample set but look at the recent Phantom slide. None of the three victims were fully buried and an airbag wouldn't have helped. If anything the airbag might have made the victims more likely to travel a greater distance with the slide, perhaps taking them through the trees below or over the cliff band that I believe Marcus just narrowly avoided going over as it was.

Great observations, Baltoro. There's so much "chaos theory" going on in why any of the three of us ended up where we did on Wednesday that I hesitate to speculate, but I can't imagine the scenario in which an airbag would have helped us in that particular slide. With the possibility (likelihood?) that it would have kept me on top of the debris and thus moving faster/farther, it could certainly have increased the speed of impact with the trees or made it more likely that we continued farther downslope, with bad consequences.

Hard to say, I guess, since we had so much good luck in the way things played out and the nature of the injuries we sustained, but I don't think an airbag would have helped us. The avalungs, on the other hand, certainly did. Of the three of us, I was the only one to lose my grip on the lung. The other two both have much more vivid memories of the slide and seemed able to more consciously direct their actions to try to influence their outcome -- my memories are much more panicked and I think my rapidly compromised airway was a big part of that.

Marcus
I've been in one relatively small slide and ended up on my knees, facing uphill buried to my lower thighs. I basically just stood up so the immediate consequences were nil. I too had an Avalung and while it played no part in allowing me to breathe while buried I feel it was crucial in allowing me to relax once enveloped in the slide. I actually relaxed a bit too much and underestimated the forces involved. The mouthpiece came out but I was able to grab it and put it back in.

Granted this was a fairly low speed slide with minimal risk (one tiny tree that would've gotten the worst of our encounter), clean runout. I knew if anything did slide it would be limited to the first 6" or so, I was the least experienced member of the party, with four other very strong BC skiiers and within site of the parking lot. It was on Hermann, nearly at the bottom.

The biggest thing though that made me relax was the Avalung. The mouthpiece gave me something to focus on. Drunk drivers always seem to survive the collisions they cause. They tend to be completely unaware of the impending crash while the victims in the oncoming lane are freaked out. They no doubt tense up and brace for the impact. It seems that in an avalanche, not unlike a car crash, the more relaxed you are the better.

All this is a moot point in some sense as avoiding the slide in the first place is rule number one. That might be the biggest arguement against avy packs. Spend the added cost on an Avy I course and a little more on an Avy II course. Or get some guided days with a focus on evaluating snow and terrain. Once you've done all that, then buy an Air bag pack.

Thanks for the anecdotal confirmation, Baltoro. When I first spoke to Roger I was more than ready to chalk it up to me just being more panicky in the slide, but Dan's vivid recall of his own actions made me wonder. Glad to know that was your experience as well (and that your slide was much less eventful as a learning experience ).

And of course, 100% agree re: training. As I said in my write-up, if I'm using my beacon I've screwed up big time. Same goes for the Avalung and an airbag pack.