Interesting AT boot Review

Worth reading if you are considering new boots.

www.coreshot.com/index.php?option=com_co...iew&id=122&Itemid=48

Very interesting and informative.
Dabello Virus got a good review.
Scarpa Maestrale got a great review.
BD Quadrant got trashed.

I have yet to ski my Quadrants.
But the walk mode that they thrash, to me was better than all the boots I tried on.
I felt for a guy with big feet that I had far more dexterity with my feet so I won't be stumbling around in the boulders and I could walk long approaches in the boots.
I'm trying to be impartial, But their test model was sized to small and it is due to the liner not being molded not the shell size. I contend that when a foot hurts it does not matter what you do all you can focus on is the pain and when you can get the boot off your feet. It's hard to be impartial and rate qualities of a boot beyond the pain.
I emailed BD on the issue of the liner because the toebox is so large there should be no way the liner is pressed up on the toe.

This is the letter I sent to BD a couple weeks ago on this matter. If you give a a rats ass read on...
Hi,
Yesterday I was at REI Seattle trying on both the Method and the 
Quadrant boots.
I noticed that the Quadrant in the same size (29.5} as the Method 
fits considerably smaller than the Method, especially in the toe area.
It was kind of surprising since the toebox on the Quadrant is 
considerably taller than the Method boot.
Upon further review I noticed that the liner in the Quadrant has 
quite a bit less volume overall with thicker thermo padding all over 
than the liner in the Method.
The toe area on the Quadrant liner is tapered back compared to the 
toebox on the Method liner, which is straighter up.
When I put the Method liner in the Quadrant the quadrant felt much 
better (more Space) without the toe pain.

I know it's not just me as there were three other customers who came 
in to buy and try the Quadrant and they were miffed that the boot 
made their toes hurt. Plenty of room in the boot with without the 
liners in-two finger spacing.
They all left like me without making a purchase. Two of them said 
that they need to weigh the cost of a new liner to the value to other 
boots. One asked about trading a liner.
Even REI's staff was a little curious on how they are going to solve 
that issue.
I have a lot of experience fitting boots and fitting thermo liners 
but given the taper on the toe and the offset stitching it would be 
difficult to get a toe cap to extend the toe space beyond the foot 
bed last and up over the stitch area. Just not enough material before 
the stitching to compensate for all the stretching necessary.
I did not want to buy another Garmont boot because the G-fit liners 
are horrible, but I'm taken back that BD kinda had an oversight on 
this issue.
On the plus side I do like BD's  walk mode compared to Dynafit and 
Garmont.

I guess I'm wondering what to do to solve the issue because I'd 
rather buy the Quadrant? Can I trade the Quadrant (29.5) liner in for 
a larger (30.5) quadrant liner or another liner like the Method liner 
that will fit right in the Quadrant boot?
Another question is can you adjust the forward lean of the Quadrant? 
Also how much stretch can I expect out of the method liner? It looks 
pretty tough and I don't expect much stretch.

Here is the response from BD...
Joe,

Thanks for checking in with us.

Please keep in mind that you're looking at and comparing two completely
different types of boots - a freeride boot that is more geared towards
in-boudns skiing that has a walk mode (Factor, Method...from our Power
Series) and a boot strictly designed with off-piste skiing in mind (Quadrant
et al from our Efficient Series). Knowing this, the freeride customer is
less prone to thermoforming.  The Factor, Method, and Shiva by all means CAN
be formed, and quite well, but more often than not this customer tends to
not - add to this a more-often-than-not superb out-of-box-fit and you see
fewer folks thermoforming these boots.  The Alpine Touring customer,
however, demands this - a thermoformed liner.

There are also many different preferences for toe room. Some like the tight
toe box and fully supported feel while others want maximum room.  The
Quadrant allows for quite a bit of volume after thermoforming.  But you
can't really go in the reverse if someone wants the tighter toe box.  So
that's why it's designed that way.  And yes, you can blow the crap out of
that toe for volume.  There's plenty of movement in the Efficient liner
(Quadrant), the stitching allows for this and this was not an oversight -
just keep in mind that the Efficient liner is akin to an Intuition; it's
almost imperative that these are thermoformed for a proper fit (as you
noted, the shell fit checked out - 1.5 to 2 fingers behind your heel w/o the
liner in the shell). It's surprising to hear that REI staff did not, or was
not, bringing this to the customers' attention.

Regarding forward lean, yes, there are two forward lean settings.
Adjustment of this is achieved by flipping the angle guide that surrounds
the ski/walk mech on the back of the boot.

You will also see less-stretch in the Method liner. The range (distance the
foam can travel) while thermoforming (or just skiing throughout the season)
is less than the Efficient Series liner based on the one way stretch of the
outer fabric vs the two way in the Efficient series.

Regards,
Joe

I have a picture of the liners that I sent to BD to compare the two liners.
Quadrant liner on left, Method liner on right. Notice how the liner is tapered back on the left pic.

I tried on other boots.
Scarpa Mastreale is designed for a foot that has a higher arch. All scarpa AT boots for that matter have a high arch. Not the tele  versions though. The inner insole of the boot has a high arched plastic instep that is a pain for us that use footbeds. It raises the footbed and rockers the footbed so it feels like there is a tennis ball in under my foot. I could not assume the dynamics of the boot when it hurt so much.

The Dalbello was to upright and I don't like to ski in a zombie stance if i don't have to all other modes were just fine. Walk was great like the Quadrant.

Dynafit-to narrow for me and in between sizes. Walk mode limited compared to the other models. Light.

Garmonts are good boots, limited walk mode. Worlds crappiest liners. Why pay so much for a useless liner?

Thanks for posting the letter and cool that BD responded so thoroughly.  I am a 29.5 BD boot as well and was very excited for the Quadrant.  I reluctantly ruled it out because the liner was so tight.  Whether it is akin to an Intuition remains to be seen, that is a bold statement.  They shouldn't be surprised the staff is a little confused since they have not been through Seattle for a vendor clinic yet and not all staff got a close look last spring.  My take was that the liner was SO tight (with proper shell fit) that I would never buy it expecting it to grow that much--even if it was an Intuition. I don't even know if I could jam a toe cap in there with that fit. However, to be fair, I haven't baked one yet. I haven't had the opportunity to try the 30.5 (largest available) but the 29.5 is the correct shell for me anyway. Interestingly, if you were at the Seattle store, one of the two 29.5s in stock recently fits slightly larger than the other FWIW. I haven't molded a pair yet so hopefully the liners do accomodate.

Thanks Scotsman!

I just bought a pair of Quadrants at 27.5 and hope to be able to wrangle the liners into submission with a little heat and elbow grease.  I did notice the liner had more padding in the front (around the front of my toes) and was painful after a few minunites, but I hope to bake enough space into them for all day comfort.  I have about an inch of space between the shell and my naked foot so there should be some wiggle room.

The width and toebox volume seems perfect for my foot and I actually wore the boots around REI while shopping for bike parts without aggravating my right foot's nerve condition.  

I must admit that it was a tossup between the 28 and 27.5, but erred on the side of "it easier to make them larger than smaller", plus if it doesn't work I'll return them for the 28s

It was amusing to read the reviewers comments about not liking the lack of rocker in the BD boot.  I thought bootfitters hated rocker'd boots and preferred bootboards for customization purposes?

Here's a follow up post from one of the testers and seems to confirm what Joedabaker says... boots did not fit them.... so Quadrant still could be a good boot... if it fits you.
Quote.
Our nasty feet (see eloquent pictures in the report) did not like the quadrant at all. Said that, it might be unpolite for us to insist with bad words on boots that were clearly made for a different type of foot.
We disliked it after a few steps and turns. If they serve well your foot, give 'em a try and let us know....
Btw, there was at least one tester who has factors and like them, so it's not something against all bd designs...
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