Alp. Touring/Randonnee & Telemark Ski Demo 1/6/10

Last year they had some tele boots and skis set up with tele bindings.

R.S.V.P. is required this year for the ski demo due to increasing interest and attendance at recent events combined with the fixed number of demo skis available.  There will be approximately 80-90 pairs of skis available for attendees to try, but all skis will be on a first come / first served basis since this is a free demo.  We ask that you please limit your testing to 2 runs per pair of skis in order to allow everyone to have the opportunity to try as many different skis as possible!

I know it's too late to do anything about this right now this year, but I have one suggestion for how to easily address this problem and vastly improve the ski demo: next year, move the demo to an area which has a high-speed lift. This would effectively double the total amount of available demo opportunities (i.e. runs) available to the public for a given number of pairs of skis.

I've attended this ski demo in both 2006 and 2009, and found it very useful, thanks for organizing it. Both times the demo had a direct influence on an AT ski purchasing decision I made later that same season (the very next week in fact in 2006). I would have attended in 2007 and 2008 too, but as I recall, it was raining both times, so not worth the drive for me.

But each time I've gone, there's been one BIG problem degrading the effectiveness of an otherwise excellent demo: the infernally SLOW chairlifts at Summit West. Not only is the speed of the Pacific Crest chair extremely slow, about 400 ft/min I'd guess, roughly 8 minutes to the top and gaining only 700 vertical ft, but the number of stops for fallen skiers/boarders is excessively high. In order to get 2 runs on a pair of demo skis, it takes about 25-30 minutes at minimum (much more if there are lots of lift halts), and roughly 80% of that time is spent on the chairlift, doing nothing. For any skilled skier (which is your target audience), the time spent actually skiing is a tiny fraction of the total time, such a waste.

In contrast, any high-speed detachable lift moves at a line speed of about 1000 ft/min, well over twice as fast, and the number of stops for newbies who can't load/unload properly is also greatly reduced. For example, the Central Express at Summit Central takes only 4 minutes to the top, half that of Pacific Crest despite its longer length and greater gain of about 950 ft. Getting 2 demo runs would take less than 15 minutes if lines are minimal. I do realize that adjusting the skis to fit each skier takes time, but even counting that, the gains in available demo time are huge. If you limit everyone to the same 2 run maximum per ski, you'd be able to get nearly twice as many people on any given pair of boards over the course of the whole night.

I'm not sure whether moving the demo is feasible, as there may be annoying business or contractual reasons of which I'm unaware. But if at all possible, I'd suggest moving it to Central, or even better Alpental (less lines at night), both of which have a night-lit high-speed lift. And Stevens Pass is another option, it has a pair of such nighttime high-speed lifts, although the greater distance from Seattle and often-dangerous drive on US 2 are big strikes against it.

Just a suggestion which I finally felt like putting in writing. A much-faster lift is the only way to accommodate a larger number of attendees without increasing the number of skis or staff. Moving the demo to a high-speed quad would be a huge improvement to the whole experience. If there's someone specific that I should contact regarding this, please let me know.

Will there be telemark boots available to test at the demo?  That's what I need to try out this season.
Gracias

There should be Telemark boots available from Scarpa, Garmont, and Black Diamond.  Most likely, they will not have any more than one pair of any given size of a particular model...and, I am sure that they will not have every model that they make with them at the demo.

I know it's too late to do anything about this right now this year, but I have one suggestion for how to easily address this problem and vastly improve the ski demo: next year, move the demo to an area which has a high-speed lift. This would effectively double the total amount of available demo opportunities (i.e. runs) available to the public for a given number of pairs of skis.

I've attended this ski demo in both 2006 and 2009, and found it very useful, thanks for organizing it. Both times the demo had a direct influence on an AT ski purchasing decision I made later that same season (the very next week in fact in 2006). I would have attended in 2007 and 2008 too, but as I recall, it was raining both times, so not worth the drive for me.

But each time I've gone, there's been one BIG problem degrading the effectiveness of an otherwise excellent demo: the infernally SLOW chairlifts at Summit West. Not only is the speed of the Pacific Crest chair extremely slow, about 400 ft/min I'd guess, roughly 8 minutes to the top and gaining only 700 vertical ft, but the number of stops for fallen skiers/boarders is excessively high. In order to get 2 runs on a pair of demo skis, it takes about 25-30 minutes at minimum (much more if there are lots of lift halts), and roughly 80% of that time is spent on the chairlift, doing nothing. For any skilled skier (which is your target audience), the time spent actually skiing is a tiny fraction of the total time, such a waste.

In contrast, any high-speed detachable lift moves at a line speed of about 1000 ft/min, well over twice as fast, and the number of stops for newbies who can't load/unload properly is also greatly reduced. For example, the Central Express at Summit Central takes only 4 minutes to the top, half that of Pacific Crest despite its longer length and greater gain of about 950 ft. Getting 2 demo runs would take less than 15 minutes if lines are minimal. I do realize that adjusting the skis to fit each skier takes time, but even counting that, the gains in available demo time are huge. If you limit everyone to the same 2 run maximum per ski, you'd be able to get nearly twice as many people on any given pair of boards over the course of the whole night.

I'm not sure whether moving the demo is feasible, as there may be annoying business or contractual reasons of which I'm unaware. But if at all possible, I'd suggest moving it to Central, or even better Alpental (less lines at night), both of which have a night-lit high-speed lift. And Stevens Pass is another option, it has a pair of such nighttime high-speed lifts, although the greater distance from Seattle and often-dangerous drive on US 2 are big strikes against it.

Just a suggestion which I finally felt like putting in writing. A much-faster lift is the only way to accommodate a larger number of attendees without increasing the number of skis or staff. Moving the demo to a high-speed quad would be a huge improvement to the whole experience. If there's someone specific that I should contact regarding this, please let me know.

Hi Amar,

Thanks for your input.  We definitely welcome and appreciate all feedback from everyone.  You can certainly call me at Marmot if you want to discuss any particulars.

I actually composed a nice response for you here, but then got called away to do something else at work...when I returned to my computer, someone had wiped out my response and I don't have the time right now to re-do the whole thing...bummer.

I will admit that I am a backcountry skier, and not much of a lift skier...so, I am not intimately familiar with all of the ski lift set-ups at the different ski areas..but, there are a number of reasons that we have historically hosted the demo at Summit West.  It is definitely too late this year to consider moving the demo to another venue, but I will certainly pass your feedback along for consideration of future demo events.

The main thing that would help us to continue to be able to put events like this on (and to sponsor things like TAY), and potentially be able to expand and improve them, is to convince local skiers to purchase their ski gear locally at small shops like Marmot Mountain Works.  I know that you have purchased skis from us in the past, as well as lots of other stuff over the years...so, thank you very much for helping to support our store!  We do appreciate it very much!  There is definitely a positive multiplier effect on the local economy if folks spend their money here in the area instead of letting it flow out of the state.

Thanks again for sharing some of your comments with us, and please feel free to call me any time at the store.

- David May

Thanks Marmot Mt Works. The demo was excellent. Well organized and lots of ski choices. Unfortunately conditions were fairly firm, so was impossible to gauge a ski's powder/crud ability. Did get a good idea of how a ski performed on hardpack. Always nice to be able to hold an edge! My pick for the night G3 Tonic. Although The dynafit skis, also skied very well and had great edge grip. They seem to have a little more substance behind them, then in past years. Just can't pronounce those funky names, or get excited by their looks. Unfortunately, jumped back on my Atomic Kailas and found myself wanting new skis! Thanks Marmot!