Do I *need* All Wheel Drive?

non ABS cars may brake slightly shorter on deep snow or loose gravel. Many newer systems are designed to avoid this with better analysis of differing wheel lock up speeds and varying pulse rates.

But only because a fully locked wheel can build up a wedge of snow/gravel. This would seem to be the exact opposite of what you're both explaining.

Otherwise the non-locked up wheel of an ABS equipped car allows wheels to rotate and steer fully during braking exactly as you describe the releasing of brakes allows.

Being a better driver than ABS is an old wives's tale almost on a level with seat belts causing drowning deaths.

Edit: ABS also has a vital role in stability control/anti skid systems where one or more brakes are applied independently of driver input.

Not sure I can agree with you 100%.  In fact not only have I found that completely releasing the brake has returned control, there are times where I have found actually applying power helped considerably.  Mind you these are not out of control skids.  Maybe that allowed the wedge of snow to be released, but I got ABS and if the sucka was working then why do I have to do all the work?

In fact the situations that I found where the ABS was most effective was on gravel.  Very effective.

I'm not against ABS, I it is just my experience that I have not had to rely on it that much.  On the other hand please understand that I am not one of those drivers out there every day trying to push the limit.  I'm just an old guy that has had some experiences.  Maybe my old beater just has a lousy implementation.

Alan

Hmm, so it looks like after my 2000 Subaru gives out, my best choices are an late 80's or early 90's Subaru or an old Ford Escort or Chevy Astrovan. Well, if there is nothing newer that's any good, I guess I'd go for the Ketchikan Cadillac (Suby) based on familiarity. With a few mods it ought to keep on ticking, like this '88 GL
or
this one

I'm in the same situation (trying to decide between fwd and 4wd) as my car right now has 213k miles and needs to be replaced.

Do other skiers on this post get by OK with fwd and snow tires?  4wd sounds nice, but as mentioned, it seems you take a hit on fuel economy with most any model you buy.

I drive a 2000 Chrysler 300M that is front wheel drive and chains won't even fit on it. I drove it down in Utah through Bryce and Zion a few years ago when 4 feet of snow dumped in one night and didn't have a problem. The only problems I have in Washington are when they physically check for chains. I think it's less about the car and more about the driver.

II think it's less about the car and more about the driver.

Illusory superiority and driving ability

"Swenson (1981) surveyed students in Sweden and the United States, asking them to compare their driving safety and skill to the other people in the experiment. For driving skill, almost all of the US sample (93%) and 69% of the Swedish sample put themselves in the top 50%. For safety, 88% of the US group and 77% of the Swedish sample put themselves in the top 50%.

McCormick et al. (1986) asked subjects to evaluate themselves on eight different dimensions of driving skill, such as the "dangerous-safe" dimension or the "considerate-inconsiderate" dimension. Out of 178 subjects, only a tiny minority of responses were below average and for some of the measures, large majorities rated themselves as above average. Taking the eight dimensions together, just under 80% of the subjects put themselves above the average driver."

here's a clip of an ex Formula One and Le Mans race car driver demonstrating how ABS/Stabilty control works better than he can manage on his own

Good to see I caught up a firm believer in ABS. Yes we all have been told that ABS works better than us. When we start sliding off the road we should just keep our foot buried into the brake pedal and let ABS save us. Now, I am talking about sliding out on ice or snow. I really believe, maybe it is "illusory", that when your car is sliding for the ditch and your brakes are pulsing faster than a mouse on crack, that you should stop freakin breaking and let the car regain traction. This may not work on a sheet of ice, but often taking your foot off the brake will allow you to regain control of the car. . Unfortunately too many people get lulled into this belief that they should keep their foot on the brake.