Washington Terrain Ratings

I appreciate your response Cookie Monster, what you are doing is a great project and quite time consuming.

People tell me that you've skiied Union Creek for years. What are your impressions of Union Creek? How would you rate the terrain?

I would give the terrain in Union a complex rating.
The Perception that it is simple is from the first exposed slope you see as you get out the saddle from Bullion. That ski is 3 or 400vft to the rollover, which I have skied many times just to the break over (Where it gets steeper). After that it gets steep from all aspects surrounding the basin. Now the choice is to go in to the hole or skin out. And as Gary mentioned there are lots of trees and a flatter basin where there is no escape. Making a sensible escape without going the long way(s) out takes some planning and ironically the safest route I've found out takes me temporarily back up near the confluence area of the gullies where several potential avy paths intersect.
It does not SEEM like it is difficult terrain, but there have been more than one time I wanted to kiss the ridge I was so happy to get out of there.
As this time of year rolls into spring (higher sun) the eastern facing slopes turn to mush, skiing can be OK down the gullies early in the day, but turn to nasty mush down in the hole and on the skin out. I don't know what it is about those slopes, but I've heard the weirdest sounds out of the snowpack, such as area whoomping in boot deep slop. Seen avalanche debris that have penetrated trees that from my perspective would be protective.
I've had many safe skis in and out of there, but there is little room when things get out of hand.

Thanks for contributions.

Here Are Some Preliminary Ratings

I'd like to add a few more simple tours. I haven't rated the following, popular tours.

Herman Saddle
Sasse Ridge
Kaleetan Peak
Heather Ridge
Jove Peak
Alpental To Snow Lake
Diamond Head
Mt. Stuart
Icicle Ridge
Lundin-Snoqualmie Saddle
Skyline Ridge

Are there more trips that should be listed?

Thanks for contributions.

Here Are Some Preliminary Ratings

I'm not sure to what make of the inclusion of glacier/crevasse presence on the ratings. Yes, it increases total route complexity but it's a completely different animal from avalanche hazard. Is the intent to try to make a composite rating of total route hazard from all potential hazards rather than just avalanches? Do other considerations such as altitude, rock fall, remoteness, fall exposure, and weather exposure then come into play?

ATES considers avalanche exposure only. Glaciation is part of ATES for a few reasons:

1. The well-known relationship between icefalls and avalanches.
2. Crevasses as terrain traps.

At present, ATES does not consider snowpack, weather, aspect, elevation, rockfall, cornices, etc. It's really just a tool for terrain selection.

I like what you have done so far.  I would like to point out that there perhaps needs to be a  tighter focus in specific routes.

My point of reference is primarily Hurricane Ridge area.  The basic tours (Hurricane Hill, and Obstruction Pt ) at Hurricane Ridge are along the ridge top, and as such are simple.

There are options for skiing terrian that are simple, (toilet bowl, main bowl of Hurricane Hill) but most are challanging. 

And of course, it's pretty easy to find complex terrain as well (Klahlane Ridge north and south aspects and north faces off Obstruction Pt road). 

So more detailed local information is needed.  Your Olympics list is a good start though. My rating based on nothing but my limited experience:

Lodge Run & Toilet Bowl-simple
Wolf Creek Trail-
Hurricane Hill- simple
Mt. Angeles- ridge route from lodge pretty simple, but off route gets complex very fast. And the good skiing is in the bowls with a different rating.
Klahhane Ridge- complex
Waterhole Trail- simple
Obstruction Point- again ridge run (simple) or skiing in the bowls (complex)?
Second peak
Deer Park
High Divide
Potholes
Mt Ellinor
Olympic Hot Springs- simple

I would love to see the computer models for those areas.

Applying the ATES is actually something that we have discussed with the Park, in part because the main resource for avalanche expertise for the Park is Canadian.  It is something that we  may work toward eventually.  Using this forum and the combined wisdom and experience may speed that process up considerably.

Thanks for the contributions. I've added your suggested ratings for the tours indicated. If you can provide photos of the other areas, I'll be happy to try and rate the terrain.

On the other hand, if you're familiar with the terrain you can probably use the ATES parameters to accurately assign a rating. Your rating will be far more accurate than mine - especially if you've traveled the route in a variety of conditions.

The central complexity is route -vs- region. I tend to favour weighing the region and route ( rather than the route itself ) because the route doesn't exist in a vacuum.

Thoughts?