January 1, 2009 Vertigo

Does anyone have any experience with vertigo? I have skiied for decades, but just started having issues a couple of years ago. Primarily it has been in cloudy, whiteout type conditions, and it is much more common where I am looking at untracked snow. for that reason, it has been less common in-bounds also. The sensation is very disorienting and I find i have to stop and get my bearings or i lose my balance. The first time i experienced it, i found the snow sliding under my skis and thought I hasd started a slough. By the time i realized i was sliding backwards i was going really fast and i yard saled. It is funny now, but at the time it scared the crap out of me.

I wear readers, and I thought I might invest in prescription sunglasses or goggles. Before I try that i thought i would see if anyone out there has had a similar experience. btw, my eye doctor ruled out any physical cause.

So, your eye doc doesn't think a change in prescription would make a difference?  Are you having problems with near, computer or any type of distance?  Do you wear your readers/bifocals when skiing? Hate to ask but what is your age?

If it is not a vision issue, then it could be an inner ear problem that is causing this.

I think a lot of people get this to a greater or lesser extent; I know I do.  It's the worst for me in white-out conditions with soft billowy snow, no horizon, etc.  If I just can't ski well because of it, well so what else is new, but when tinges of nausea come on board it can be a little unpleasant.  I remember from school being taught that people locate themselves in space using 3 senses:

vision

inner ear

and propioception, which is one of those beyond-fifth senses.  Proprioception is feedback you get from muscles concerning their position in space.  For example if your knee is bent 30 degrees, you can probably tell pretty well that it's at 30 degrees even if you can't see it, and if someone passive bent it to 40 degrees, you could accurately tell which way they bent it and pretty close to exactly how much.  Stretch receptors in our muscles feed your brain this info in a semiconscious way, and maybe good athletes of the jumping variety (trampoline, gymnasts, some skiers but not me) can get really good proprioceptive senses.

What I remember being taught was that in most situation, 2 out of 3 ain't bad and can make up for lack of input from the other senses.  However, if one sense is knocked down by conditions, aging, disease, or what have you, and then you take a hit with a second sense, things can slip beyond the threshold and one can not really know where one is in space.  That is why I think the combination of no-horizon whiteout with no trees, and bottomless powder, is bad: less proprioceptive feedback from your legs and the grounds, and no visuals.  Whiteouts on hard-pack aren't as bad. 

Maybe goggles that can add contrast?  Skiing behind someone to give visual feedback? 

The first time i experienced it, i found the snow sliding under my skis and thought I hasd started a slough. By the time i realized i was sliding backwards

A near perfect description of my experience up on Muir in early November. I was heading down with Skier Lyles and Neil Turner through varying degrees of fog and blowing snow. When three or four attempts to ski downhill all ended up with that same backward sliding disorienting experience, nausea took over and made it impossible to ski anymore. I was forced to take off my skis and hike down numbly, gradually returning to normal over the space of an hour or so. I was worried about future skiing, but many subsequent trips have proven that with good visibility, skiing still ranks close to a heavenly experience. One thing that has helped - I ski with glasses, and when they get wet or fogged up I can't ski for beans. I purchased some good Smith Goggles with the motorized fan. No fogging, and enhanced contrast are proving priceless, even with a couple of night skiing trips. Yahoo!

This is a cool thread and you guys have a good understanding of the physiology of body awareness.

Vertigo is actually the sensation of spinning. You guys are describing "spatial disorientation". As you have said, maintaining your visual cues will help with that. Sking in the trees or near your partners, having reliable vision correction, avoiding white out and fog conditions, skiing in daytime are all important:)

Contact lenses help because they wont fog or get wet. Lasik technology is getting better and better and cheeper and cheeper. Naval aviation and submarine communities have been using lasik for more than a decade now and there are no know problems with barometric changes (theirs are as great as any mountain climbers').

Rustyknees - sounds like you became so disoriented that you had motionsickness. Keeping your visual cues will help prevent this, as will staying well fed and well rested and SKIING EVERY DAY! Most people will have motion sickness the first few days of the exciting vestibular input but after several days get used to it. People returning from sea will have motion sensation (sea legs) for about a week after returning to solid ground.

cheers, alisa

Yep, I've had that a few times on Mt Hood; once so badly I had to take my skis off and boot down to more forgiving terrain simply because I couldn't tell if I was stopped or moving and it was dangerous.  I admit that it's an odd feeling when you are standing there in a white out only to realize that you're moving along at a reasonale clip in some unknown direction (maybe down?).  

I too ski with glasses and goggles with the motorized fan, but my glasses are so prone to fogging up, it's maddening.

Also, I  have experience with vertigo from working on computers too much and it's very frighting - more to what you describe with nausea - and it takes quite some time to recover fully.  In LA I once has to pull my car over and just sit because I couldn't drive or walk.  After about 15-20 min I felt fine enough to go for a trail run (my original destination), but for a few minutes I wasn't sure if I could make it home or not.

My remedy is to work less on computers (computer work for 12-16hr/day for a month or two isn't good for you  :-[ ) and take longer brakes away from the screen of doom.

cd