Info on New Ski Routes in the Cascades

If every route was eventually wikified, I think that I would have a hard time avoiding taking a peek at it.  I might even get addicted to it, maybe even at risk of turning to stone.  But I likely would feel guilty.  With willpower I think that I would prefer to not use it.

In past discussions of this topic, someone has usually made the observation, "If you don't like guidebooks, don't use them." My previous response was to mention the "Rue Rick Steves" effect. There's a street in Paris that became so famous from Rick Steves' guidebooks that it earned this nick-name. Even if you don't use his guidebook, you can't avoid running into people who do.

But wiki technology changes the picture significantly. My feeling is that a wiki can create a permanent cultural change. Two reasons:

1. Wikis are built by communities, not by a single individual, so they can be more comprehensive.

2. Wikis don't go out of print, unlike books which inevitably do.

So, if you were to establish a successful wiki guidebook to the Cascades, the odds are that it would not only be more complete, because anybody could contribute to it, but it would also be permanent. It would never go out of print.

The older generation might avoid using the wiki out of nostalgia for the old days. But the young would almost certainly embrace it.

My 12-year-old son will probably get interested in backcountry skiing in a few years. If his introduction to the Cascades was through a comprehensive wiki, would he be missing experiences that we take for granted today? Should I care about this? This sort of cultural change is one of the unintended consequences I was referring to. It's something worth thinking about before taking this step.

In past discussions of this topic, someone has usually made the observation, "If you don't like guidebooks, don't use them." My previous response was to mention the "Rue Rick Steves" effect. There's a street in Paris that became so famous from Rick Steves' guidebooks that it earned this nick-name. Even if you don't use his guidebook, you can't avoid running into people who do.

I wonder, does Rick Steves rue the effects of the Rue Rick Steves effect? His undiscovered paradises effectively rue-ined due to discovery, by him!

I appear to be in the minority in that I like to research as much information as possible before beginning an expedition.  Once I gather all the information I can, I may follow previous routes, or design my own, but I wouldn't intentionally not use any resources available to me.

There have been times when I've been armed with a route description, but studied the area maps as well.  On arriving, I've noticed the original plan didn't look as good as it did on paper, and gone my own way instead.

It really surprises me how many responses on this thread seem to indicate the posters are unwilling to do that sort of thing, and given access to information about a route will follow it to the letter. Or maybe its just the posters feel that having seen a photograph of an area eliminate the feeling of exploration -- I've never felt any less excited for knowing that I wasn't the first to be somewhere, or having seen pictures beforehand. In the mountains, the appearance of a particular slope can change dramatically overnight.

Lordhedgie,

I certainly see your point. I also try to use the resources that I have at hand. I guess its a matter of degree for me. I suppose it could go full range, from driving up cold and just heading out all the way to hiring a helicopter and guide with a sled to drag me up and down a route so that I feel completely comfortable about how it "goes" before actually doing the route "clean" as a backcountry trip. Those examples certainly are extremes (with the first as being highly probable that someone acts that way and the other as far less probable?).

I think the thread started as an idea to offer trip ideas to everyone and what seems clear in the responses is that how one views the concept of a published resource is deeply personal.

For me, not being a native to the area, I liked the guidebooks as a means to introduce me to the general areas, practical car approaches and hiking approaches. Also, the specific routes, while useful have taught me how to connect the experience expected to the topography as judged by others more experienced than I. Those links, once established make me a better player when I do my own research. That research into new areas or trips "discovered" through reports posted here usually includes topo maps, a read of the general area in one of Becky's books and, now that I have it, World Wind. Not all of this research is solely to increase my odds of nailing the route. Because of restrictions to my time, I often go to these resources to basically daydream about the prospects of a great time out on the route. In some case I may be in the area during a summer hike, but that has become much more rare these days for me. When my wife and I first moved out here I had no guide book and most of our trips basically came from impressions recorded on summer hikes.

My fear is that if every line was published in a huge guide wiki, some of that creative process might be eliminated from my process. I don't argue against it, partly because it is my responsibility to avoid it if I so choose.

I think some people fear that it may increase use into areas previously thought of as personal stashes. That may be so. On the other hand it may also spread parties out and make those areas that are now heavily used more pleasant. I don't know.

Alan

I think this is a great idea. A wiki would be a good tool for that purpose. Going for a webserver running e.g. Mediawiki may not even be necessary (at least in the beginning). There a good online wikis. My favourite is wikidot.com. Easy to use and free of ads. I use it for work and private things and I am quite happy with it.

It is true though that it may change backcountry skiing in the region. But I think the more people get away from their TVs the better. Some places may get crowded but others may get more accessible.

This is a great discussion, and one I had hoped to hear both sides of. I had anticipated there would be some folks on both sides of the fence when it comes to documenting routes and its great to give everyone a better understanding of the whole picture, the desire for information, and the need to protect the very nature of our sport and the culture of our mountains.

However, its one thing to argue against the idea in general and want to stay with the status quo.

But, its another thing to realize that, given that the technology exists today, its likely just a matter of time before this is created. Not necessarily by me, but it will exist one day.

Given that, let me just ask  - if it will exist, why wouldn't we want to jump on this now - as a community -  with the intent of providing guidelines to control the information flow. We may not have the option to logically think through it in the future - and we may lose our chance to control it, and provide it the applicable boundaries within which it can grow.

What guidelines would be applicable to an effort like this?