Tele fat ski questions

Great thread!
My first set up was K2 big kahunas with 7tms and T-1s. Yeah, so pretty much I'm new to the sport. And I've seen Joe ski, and he lands firmly in the "smokin'" category. So what I have to offer, you might have to take with a grain of salt.
Anyhoo. Last year I really wanted some powder boards. My boyfriend had a pair of Spatulas that he alpined on. He's a smokin' skier too, but in mank and powder the Spatulas put him in a completely different (better) class, and with far less effort. The premise of the Spatula is that powder skiing is like water skiing, with a softer rc/rs ski floating better and porpoising to the surface better. Reverse camber and reverse side-cut made sense (and he always won pond-skimming contests) but at a minimum length of 180, and weighing like they were made of depleted uranium, Spatulas were not the ski for me.
I ended up getting some Icelantic Shamans, and mounted them with Voile CRBs, and still ski the T-1s. I love the float and the FAT tip (160) in wind-packed and manky conditions. Fat skis are SO forgiving, even in the conditions that bring all your ugly little quirks to the surface (shortly before a face-plant). The ski is a lot of fun on those sloppy wet groomers we have in March/April. As you might expect, they ski a lot like garbage can lids when skied in icier/firmer conditions. I like them a lot in powder, except that I find them too stiff. I think I'd enjoy something a little noodlier. I say all that to say that maybe your experience has more to do with the stiffness of the ski instead of the fatness of it. I keep leaning toward fat skis with virtually no shape and very soft when skiing powder.
The last two weeks' conditions, I'd have seriously packed my Shamans out to some bowls and skied them. But I am not convinced yet to get skins for them. (their shape isn't really conducive to skinning anyway.) Good luck.

I've only seen Joe ski tele once, but having seen him tele, I can't help but think this is some kind of troll. Joe, I don't think you have much of a problem.

In response to  dkoelle about striving for 50-50 weight distribution on rear and front foot. I say strive for 100% weight  on the rear foot and you'll end up near 50-50.

Anyway, Brenda and I both started skiing on tele around '97 with leather Asolo Snowfields and some purple  Rossi Nepals and Tua Montet's that were way too long. We both got a pair of the maroon T3's that we both loved and thought it would be the last boot we'd ever need. 1st gen Piste Stinx and World Piste were a real step up for us. Upgrades to the newer beefier T3's and Brenda's minty green Tua Sumos took us to the next level. She loved those skis, and the replacement with a pair of Karhu Jills with a 90 waist was met with doubt. She never looked back, Sumos were history.  I got the red Work Stinx at 88 waist. For the last 3 seasons that that's what we've been skiing - along with mixing it up at times with bigger boots, T1 for me and her Crispi CXP's. Every step of the way has led to an improvement in technique and handling of variable conditions.

So we've been debating the next step and finally pulled the trigger. Brenda will be kicking it on some new Karhu Berthas in a week or so. 100 at the waist. No demos, just reviews. We'll see how she fares.

So we've been debating the next step and finally pulled the trigger. Brenda will be kicking it on some new Karhu Berthas in a week or so. 100 at the waist. No demos, just reviews. We'll see how she fares.

Heh -- she's going to flip her lid. Our regular crew calls fat skis "cheater sticks". Can't wait to see her ski them.

I've only seen Joe ski tele once, but having seen him tele, I can't help but think this is some kind of troll. Joe, I don't think you have much of a problem.

oooohh...I was hoping that I would not be fishing for compliments or whining for attention to boost a shallow skier's self esteem

The biggest room in my house is the room for improvement. And thanks to TAY contributors I have learned alot on this tele subject and need to take it to the hill to practice! Or just throw a bunch of money at the problem and get more gear!
It is very interesting to read about peoples gear.

Joe, as long as I am balanced I don't have that problem. Maybe you're bindings are too far back. I would try skiing in walk mode with your T1s, I do this with my TRaces. I like to flex my knees, hips and ankles and can't stand the rigid ski modes.

I inadvertently have skied in walk mode and notice a back seat effect not more forward flex, but it does force one to stay forward. You offered some mounting suggestions on a previous thread for this ski, and I mounted about 1cm back from your spot, but the sweet spot is huge on that ski, so I think it is the driver not the car. The ski is a little softer torsionally than I though it would be after demoing the Atua on alpine setup.

I only freeheel, and I think the weight, stiffness and sidecut dictate effort as much as fatness. BUT every new ski I've ever bought has been fatter than the last one, and I've not gone wrong yet. The KWs are rougher at slow speeds but it's not the width.
I just moved my BD O1s from the red Work Stinx (89 waist) to brand new Kilowatts and they work great. The only tough day I've had was Crystal in deep cut-up crud, but I think it was me getting the balance right. I wear Ener-Gs that are a bit large, and have no trouble with them being too much or too little. I think stiffer boots = more upright stance = fore/aft shifts have less consequence = easier on the knees and more chances to adjust height, balance, and do all kinds of hybrid turns. Rear knee to heel, not to ski---but you already know that.
If you were killing bumps in leather much of this must be old wisdom. I learned on Merrell XCDS, Kazamas, and "Revenge of the Telemarkers", so I use lots of up & down while keeping the tighter stance. Starting a run w/freeheels is tricky, so I often begin with a jump turn or two, even hopping in place once or twice to get the momentum & image. Kinda like a rock climber pumps or rocks in place before throwing a dyno....
What was the original question? :

I have always been curious what it would be like to ski on a pair of fat tele skis.
Years ago I bought a pair of T-1's and they have sat around only to be used once or twice a season, mostly in the spring or summer.
Last year I showed up with only my boots at Crystal's Vertfest for the tele demos thinking of trying fat tele skis.
I tried 105mm under foot and that was just to wide to manage, then I tried the BD Kilowatt, I think 94 under foot and just loved the ski in the spring glop. The BD 01 binding also was great so my toes did not get the usual grind on skin of the toes when I really bent down and prayed to the tele Gods.
The cost was a little high on the Kilowatt ski, so I looked around and bought the Fisher T-Stix 96. I really stepped up and got the 01 bindings and skins for the skis.
I was dreaming of those days of pinning in powder with the snow blowing over my chest as I knelt down to pray that I make my next turn.

Mind you, I came from the old school of tele- ripping it up on leather boots and narrow, long skis, gaiters and such...
What I have recognized is that unlike my alpine fat skis that makes it easier to ski the powder, the fatter tele ski takes more energy and makes it more difficult to ski the powder.
That might be my age too. I find that in a telemark stance that the fatter ski floats more and therefore pushes back or adds more resistance to the front leg than it would with a narrower ski that penetrates into the snow offering less resistance to the front leg in the telemark stance. This causes me to rely more on my dropped foot to balance and steer and tires the front leg more.

Now I may be off my rocker, because I see a younger contingent that may have never dawned leather boots for lift skiing ripping it up on fat tele skis and stiff plastic boots.
I have read where they talk of using the rear leg for steering and balance and thought they have it all wrong, the front leg is where it all happens. Like a good boxer front leg forward shoulders square and hands up,  but I may have to evolve my thinking or ski width to manage the wider skis.

So I was just wondering if you have weathered all this reading what your take on fat tele skis is?
Do you feel that there is more resistance on the front leg with a fatter ski in powder?
Don't notice a difference? Would not know the difference?
Tele or AT-Is carrying a heavy pair of fat skins in your pack worth the space and weight it occupies for the reward it offers on the ski down?

I think that at the next Vertfest that I will demo skis in the 88 underfoot range and see if that makes a difference.

Overall, I have found fat skis to be particularly advantageous on alpine skis and to an extent  AT skis, but on most days, even big powder days, all I need is a ski with 88mm underfoot 120's in the shovel and it skis pretty much all conditions real well. Of course I am old school and like to make lots of turns in powder, trees and GS the crud. The only straight lines and air is to get from the problems to the solutions.

Joe

Joe,

Kindly,

You are going to have give up on your pride and join the newer easier way of doing things. First I will tell you why you should consider my words. 1) I was a certified ski/snowboard/tele instructor. 2) I have skied my whole life. 3) I entered the sport with leathers and then first generation plastics.

Fatter, newer, plastic is better in every way. And with good technique it is WAY WAY WAY easier on the old bones and muscles. With tele as with alpine turns, the newer technology has made it easier to have better technique. Specifically, weight distribution and steering have been changed dramtically. If you want the bio-mechanics, buy a PSIA manual. The simplist way to explain it is thus:

On new equipment, weight distribution is closer to 50-50 all the time. Weight stays on the arch of both of your feet (back and front). Steering is evil: if you are in a balanced athletic position you will turn effortlessly in the direction you want to go regardless of conditions or depth of snow. Specifically you mention that the front ski is where all the action is at. You are or were completely wrong in this. It didn't work very well before, and on the new equipment it doesn't work at all! Start your turn by dropping your knee and keep that damn front ski under your front knee. You should always feel the pressure of your front shin on the front of your nice comfy plastic boots.

The simplist saviour for you will to buy "Allen & Mike's Really Cool Telemark Tips" book. This fun little pocket sized guide will change your life for the better and keep you ripping well into your 90's.

Finally, there is no excuse for skinned toes. Get some freaking new boots. I had those old evil T-1's. They were hell.

Fatter is better, the revolution is alive, the old is dead, join the movement. Thanks for having the humility to ask. The minute I was willing to upgrade my equipment and technique, the effort I put into tele reduced dramtically and the fun factor sky-rocketed! Good luck!

-savegondor