Mt Rainier National Park citations $350

I had a great ski trip around Mt Rainier with Paul and Benj last early July. So I was dismayed on 29 December to receive 2 citations for "Failure to register for glacier travel" ($275) and "Failure to pay required fees - climbing pass" ($75). Here is my summary of what happened:

On 7 July we drove to the White River entrance and informed the gate person that we planned a 3 day ski around the mountain. The gate person said fine and did not suggest we inquire about permits. I naively assumed that since we were not climbing the mountain we did not need a climbing permit and we did not stop at the office.

At Glacier Basin we met a ranger and he asked to see our permit. We told him we did not have one and that we were not aware we needed a permit. He said ok, be sure to get one next time, you can be on your way, but give me a name and your planned date of return for safety. No mention was made of potential for citation or suggestion made to return for permit. So I gave him my name and return date and off we went to a great ski trip and voila the citation shows up end of December.

So I currently plan to argue this (in US District Court in Tacoma) on the basis of:

- gate attendant did not suggest inquire regarding permit
- ranger did not inform of potential for citation and used my name for other than stated safety purposes
- I am the only one in our group to be cited
- citation received nearly 6 months later
- no intent of wrongdoing(?)

So I guess I am venting but am also interested in similar experiences of others with this sort of thing and any advice. :'(

Ouch! Is that because you went higher than 10k or whatever they mention on the climbing permits? I'm not even familiar with the glacier travel one which probably means I have violated it.

You probably already know this but the most public statement of what you are fighting is here:
www.nps.gov/mora/planyourvisit/climbing.htm
There is probably something more formal and legal in some document like an addendum to general Dept of Interior rules that MRNP has to maintain but this document seems good enough to hold up to scrutiny legally.
I will be interested to see how this shakes out.
I am most interested in how the concept of "Anyone climbing or hiking on glaciers ..." holds up to scrutiny.
For example, hundreds of people a year travel on the east lobe of the Flett Glacier to reach Echo or Observation rocks. How many do you suppose had a climbing pass, or registered for a climb?
For an even more extreme example, how many people do you suppose have set foot on what the USGS maps consider to be the Van Trump, Paradise, or Williwakas glaciers, without even realizing it?
Fighting citations is about fighting the gray areas, and concentrating on issues such as irregular enforcement, non-clarity of definitions, and lack of prior proper notification of what the ground for citations were. I hope you win this deal because it sounds like you have traction on all three of these.

A citation for stepping foot on a glacier in MRNP without a permit? I guess I owe the Fed a couple thousand dollars then. Typical.

Yup, I think most everyone on this board is in violation!

A bit of a look at the Mt R web site and I found this in reply to the first most FAQ:

"A climbing pass is not required to walk up to high camps or ski/snowboard on the lower glaciers."

Our high point was about 10,000 feet where we crossed the Puyallup Cleaver.

I did not find any mention of a requirement to register for glacier travel.

Interestingly, the FAQ page also says "If you are staying out overnight, a Wilderness Camping Permit is required." but we were not cited for this.