Will it ever stop? Girl in avi on Pilchuck

I agree avalanche terrain = beacon, probe, and shovel. But I think your leaving the most important pieces of safety equipment out. Knowledge, good judgement, common sense, and an understanding of avalanches.

Well I wasn't putting up a list of all safety equipment that should go into the back country, but since you brought it up....common sense is different for every person. Common sense put those people in the terrain they were in. Most folks don't have the same common sense that an experienced back county traveler has. Good judgment is good when it does not have a grave consequence and things go as planned. Good judgment comes from experiences and mistakes. So, everyone has a different level of good judgment. I bet we have all been in situations that we shouldn't have because of poor judgment and lack of common sense. If you haven't then I tip my hat to you. Through these experiences knowledge grows. As I see it people have been taking their knowledge, good judgment, common sense, and the knowledge of avalanches in to the back county and it has got them killed. The most important pieces...I did not know there was the "most important pieces." The best sure fire way to avoid an avalanchee is to stay out of the mountains. How's that for common sense. We all know we could be killed by an avalanche through common sense and we still go out in to avalanche terrain. So, common sense failed us the minute we walk out the door and head for avalanch terrain. As for knowledge, far more experienced people than you and I have been in avalanches. Knowledge can be dangerous. The same can be said for understanding avalanches, watch the video A Dozen More Turns. I appreciate what you are saying, I am glad my experiences and education have been helpful to my survival in the mountains. I just don't think of them as safety equipment.

Here's an export from TopoFusion that helps me understand the terrain at Lake 22.
The mention of the phrase 'avalanche terrain' got me thinking about just what should be considered avalanche terrain this year. A once every 10 year slope, a once in a 100 year slope? If I remember correctly, the entire east side of the the Crystal Mtn. area is or was considered a once in a 100 year slide path, with the possibility of the whole thing coming down, wiping out all the cabins, etc. I remember a few times when we were advised not to go to them for this reason.

I think one thing is clear however; the idea that 'I've not seen this or that slope slide before' doesn't mean much this year.

Larry

Good advice Larry.  I think I have been guilty of, " I've never seen that slope slide before" syndrome once or twice.  If I say it again I am sure you will give me a funny look!  What did the police sargeant say at the end of briefing on Hill Street Blues, "Hey, and let's all be careful out there...".  Probably that last time I really watched network television!

A favorite activity is to guess the layers, then dig a pit, then see what gives with stability tests. I find myself suprised and humbled on a pretty regular basis. I think we can all learn by "surprising ourselves" in the arena of snow science.

Pit test in the smaller trees off of the Mountaineers ski hill (between summit West and Central) on Jan 5:
Here

Cool vid of a Rutschblock. What aspect slope was this?

We found a homogeneous snowpack of fist at 5000 ft on S/SW aspects at Snoq, with a few Q2-Q3 shears. Our block, which probably should have been a foot longer and wider, crumbled apart after a few hard jumps (let's call it R6).

One thing to keep in mind is if you were really going to ski the slope, rather than just play around (we similarly dug a 4-foot-deep pit on Sunday), is that you only investigate deep layers as deep as you dig... so if we're concerned about something shearing deep, we'd be digging a long time! Good excuse to be lazy and stay in the trees.

Re: some of the previous posts:

We're thinking like bc skiers.  We've amassed lots of experience, read books, taken courses, etc.  Should snowshoers need to have the same training?  It sounds pretty prohibitive for someone who just wants to "go hiking in the snow."  What about Marten Creek?  Should that snowshoe trip be out because the trail is in the valley beneath some big slopes on Dickerman (NW-facing?).  Should snowshoers only go out in low-to-moderate conditions?  (hey, it would keep them from turning our skin tracks into I-90)

It sounds like this was a naturally triggered avy (from 500 feet above).  For considerable danger, such an avy should be possible but not probable.  Had they been a minute earlier or later, they would have been fine.  They made a decision that was good 99% of the time but not 99.99% of the time.  As skiers, we'll cross below suspect slopes on occasion when there's no easy alternative, so we improve our odds by traveling fast, going one at a time, watching each other, and being prepared to rescue. 

I think the biggest lesson out of this incident is that the mountains will always show you things you've never seen before, and it can be a mistake to assume that things will be like the past 10 times.  I think an avy fatality below 2500 ft is pretty unprecedented for WA.

All that said, I've never been to Lake 22 -- just looked it up on the map -- my choice place to take beginners for real is Skyline Lake.

I think we should try our best to inspire a CULTURE of knowledge.  My view is that all snowshoers should be as educated as the experienced bc skiier.  The bc is the bc and does not descriminate. 

Hands down:  There is no excuse for this lack of knowledge displayed by those that have died so far.  But I do not blame them...I blame our culture...and thus I advocate that we all do our best to sober up all our friends and family that we take up to the mountains. 

Education is the answer.  And it should be available enough that no one could ever say, "I just didn't know it was dangerous."  I hope the media and the bc community capitolizes on this tragic but rare opportunity to get the public's attention.  I already saw one such article in the PI or the Times that did a very good interview with someone from NWAC.  NWAC, keep up the good work!