Slides at Paradise

Ten feet deep--that's longer than my avalanche probe.

Regarding safe(r) routes between Paradise and Panorama Point, I would avoid Edith Creek basin altogether. I think passing west of Alta Vista would generally be the best policy when there's any question about avalanche conditions. Don't go into Edith Creek Basin at all.

Yeah, we had single-piece and screw-together probes that were longer than my normal probe. The area was a classic terrain trap (abrupt decrease in slope at the bottom of a funnel) so between the original avy, the new snow, and the control work, there was a lot of snow. Often we'd push the probes all the way down and then keep pushing till elbow or shoulder deep. I don't remember who striked and how (several of us striked deep irregular ice layers nearby so it's possible we had shaved a few feet off the surface), but it's possible that by that point because of concerns of an undercut moat, we were probing perpendicularly into the slope, a shorter distance. We dug out a flat staging area immediately downhill of the body, and still the person excavating the body (and getting sprayed by the waterfall) was standing on a platform at least six feet deeper than the staging area.

Thanks for your efforts in the search, Gary.

And that goes for all the other volunteers whose names we don't know.

Big thumbs up.

That is incredible work, that he could be recovered.  It takes special people to do that.  I have always marveled at the folks who are so much more capable than me out there.   Therefore, I always stick to the safe routes and don't hesitate to turn around when I feel I am entering survival mode. 

I was once taking the winter route up to Panarama Point on a nice day and watch some guys on foot climbing up the steep face on the South side above Edith Creek Basin.  I really was wondering about the safety of that.  And of course I have taken a big sluff ride while skiing down the main winter route. 

It's always upsetting when something bad happens and there is a natural tendency to think of ways to keep it from happening again.  Yet...

www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_1221...und_KS.3b9d1a06.html

...."A lot of people love these conditions. That's why people go out into the wilderness, because they love this. They love getting out into the beauty and the solitude of this environment, and there's always risks associated with that," said Bacher.....

When I heard that this party had been "half-way to Camp Muir" but then turned back, and that the avi had occurred in Edith Creek basin, I was guessing that the location might have been somewhere in this photo (snow covered Edith Creek waterfall near center, McClure Rock at top center, Pan Point just out of photo at upper left):


I think Ron's got it right, though, working from Gary's description. I almost went down that draw once in the fog, on the way back to Paradise. As I recall, from the base of Pan Point winter route, one is already in the drainage of that gulley/waterfall, so it is easy to follow the fall line and end up there. It takes a purposeful traverse to get skier's right over the little ridge to get out of that drainage and on the proper route back to Paradise (and as Lowell says, to the west of Alta Vista).

Here's a link to topozone.com map of the area. The photo above was taken from the spot marked by the red symbol, looking north. I think the gulley in this latest avi incident is due west of the red symbol, between the word "SKYLINE" and the labeled contour for "6000".
Edith Creek basin topo

With another avi warning on a weekend, I have to say that Mother Nature's timing could be better, and I hope everyone is safe and snug at home today.

My only near whiteout retreat from halfway to Muir was with two mid 20 year olds in 35 mph gusts and ice pellets from the SW about 7 years ago.  When we were most of the way down the winds pushed us a little East to a steep East facing slope.  I could not see the roll off, partly due to iced up goggles, but two steps into it I froze with a really griping feeling.  We back tracked several dozen yards and headed more SSW.  It was not 15 slow traveling minutes later that we stumbled across the small stone shelter.   I do not know precisely which part of the Edith rim we were on but luckily conditions were not high that day.

This Fall my conditioning hikes and tours included Melakwa Lake, Snow Lake, and Camp Muir as well as a cancelled trip to Crystal.   All areas which have received much prayer and reflection early this season.  This and all the above posts but specifically Randy, GerryH, and Gary's do place increased concern for the gap between my preception and the buried truth (Schrödinger's cat).