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avalache awareness- for snowshoers
- juan
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18 years 2 months ago #179847
by juan
Replied by juan on topic Re: avalache awareness- for snowshoers
Word up TN!
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- Mattski
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18 years 2 months ago #179875
by Mattski
Replied by Mattski on topic Re: avalache awareness- for snowshoers
As an avalanche educator, BC ski guide and passionate skier, I have noticed several trends that may contribute to this problem.
With snowshoeing, people have not tried to understand that the winter environment is dynamic. Without proper education any travel in avalanche terrain is Russian roulette without some knowledge of safe travel and terrain evaluation techniques. The books about snowshoeing that are published, I did read the mountaineers books on the subject, do not spend more than a brief chapter on avalanche phenomena. Snowshoeing is not the same as hiking since the terrain in winter can be hazardous when in summer it is just a trail and learning the difference is the key
With education, the expectation that avalanche courses should be less expensive or you should not have to spend money on safety gear is a poor argument when you consider how much you spend on your car to make it safe. Compare snow travel to scuba diving and there are similar safety protocols and expenses with getting started but once you get thru the initial costs it pays off with the safe travel you will be able to do.
As for notices and who should inform the public, neither Alpental or the USFS should be responsible for individuals on public land. To ask them to do so will also bring the the responsibility of restricting access if the hazard is deem too high. In the US, we do not fund the USFS to conduct such practices. We do give private enterprise the responsibility to do so if they manage other hazards as well such as ski areas.
What is the solution? First anyone who would like to travel in the backcountry needs to get educated on the skills necessary to go out there and understand the hazards that exist. Snowshoes and snowmobiles are just tools like skis and snowboards and need to respect the same practices other users have learned to cinduct their activities.
Once that is realized, then critical mass will help avalanche course providers offer courses specific to the different users. Publishers are also responsible for printing current information and not informing snowshoers that travel in avalanche terrain demands the same respect and education by all travellers, not just skiers and snowboarders.
Until we reach that understanding, then avalanche education will be looked at as just another expense preventing people from getting their backcountry experience cheap and easy.
With snowshoeing, people have not tried to understand that the winter environment is dynamic. Without proper education any travel in avalanche terrain is Russian roulette without some knowledge of safe travel and terrain evaluation techniques. The books about snowshoeing that are published, I did read the mountaineers books on the subject, do not spend more than a brief chapter on avalanche phenomena. Snowshoeing is not the same as hiking since the terrain in winter can be hazardous when in summer it is just a trail and learning the difference is the key
With education, the expectation that avalanche courses should be less expensive or you should not have to spend money on safety gear is a poor argument when you consider how much you spend on your car to make it safe. Compare snow travel to scuba diving and there are similar safety protocols and expenses with getting started but once you get thru the initial costs it pays off with the safe travel you will be able to do.
As for notices and who should inform the public, neither Alpental or the USFS should be responsible for individuals on public land. To ask them to do so will also bring the the responsibility of restricting access if the hazard is deem too high. In the US, we do not fund the USFS to conduct such practices. We do give private enterprise the responsibility to do so if they manage other hazards as well such as ski areas.
What is the solution? First anyone who would like to travel in the backcountry needs to get educated on the skills necessary to go out there and understand the hazards that exist. Snowshoes and snowmobiles are just tools like skis and snowboards and need to respect the same practices other users have learned to cinduct their activities.
Once that is realized, then critical mass will help avalanche course providers offer courses specific to the different users. Publishers are also responsible for printing current information and not informing snowshoers that travel in avalanche terrain demands the same respect and education by all travellers, not just skiers and snowboarders.
Until we reach that understanding, then avalanche education will be looked at as just another expense preventing people from getting their backcountry experience cheap and easy.
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- GerryH
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18 years 2 months ago #179877
by GerryH
Replied by GerryH on topic Re: avalache awareness- for snowshoers
A lot of good thoughts and ideas here. I agree wholeheartedly with the need for targeted education by the avalanche education community, as well as increased public service announcements/messages by our local newspapers, radio and television regarding the need for avalanche education if going out in the winter and into non-controlled areas - including all of the popular summer hiking areas - whose avalanche potential is unknown to most of the public. And I think the idea of asking retailers to step up and alert their equipment buyers of the need for avalanche education is critical as well; it is almost negligent to not do so! With already 2 avalanche deaths and 4 missing and presumably deceased, we're well on our way to the worse avalanche season in Washington in many, many years. What worries me is that the necessary but needless rescue callouts are going to at some point trigger a reevaluation of 'free' rescue services. Given the time and money that Park Service rangers, USFS personnel, Sheriff Dept personnel and equipment (helicopters), military helicopter crews, ski area professional and volunteer patrols, and volunteers have put into the Denny Ck, Snow Lake, Union Ck and now Paradise SAR efforts, one of these days already stressed budgets are going to be strained past the breaking point. Then we'll be on the Euro-system where you play and pay (for rescue). Or, some land manager is going to get the idea that to assure rescue, insurance and proof of insurance will be required. And such insurance may be hard and/or expensive to get. Or, alternatively, put up a big bond as self-insurance. Which of course would suddenly make playing in the winter backcountry an impossibility for many. I think it is the entire backcountry community's responsibility to educate ourselves, and impress upon everyone we come in contact with who plays in the backcountry of the need for such education (as well as carrying beacons, probes & shovels)! Gerry Haugen
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- Kim Larned
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18 years 1 month ago #179988
by Kim Larned
Replied by Kim Larned on topic Re: avalache awareness- for snowshoers
I wanted to let folks know about the efforts the Forest Service is making towards educating the snowshoeing community, at least on a local level. I've run the snowshoe walks at Snoqualmie Pass for about 15 years and our message has changed drastically over the years.
We talk to about 800-900 people each winter on our walks about winter ecology and safety, hopefully we are reaching a few who follow up with a formal avy course. My goal on the walks is to at least get folks interested in learning more about avy safety. Most truly have no idea that avalanches are even a threat. Or they feel like being out with the "ranger" somehow makes them immune to the dangers. At a minimum I encourage those just beginning snowshoeing to take a Level 1 course.
On our 1/2 day walks up Commonwealth Basin we are able to show and talk about some avalanche hazards, but I strongly emphasize that people need to take a formal course from professional avalanche educators.
One problem I've run into is that most Level 1 courses are designed for skiers. Snowshoers need courses that can be geared toward safe winter travel on snowshoes.
Any instructors out there who offer Level 1 courses that would be appropriate for snowshoers, let me know so I can post it at the Visitor Center and give people a place to go for that course.
We have also talked to snowshoe rental shops about safe areas to send snowshoers, especially beginners. We always try to steer folks away from areas that consistently pose a threat and are beyond their avy assessment capabilities. Any signing we've tried in the past often gets torn down. And really, people often tell us they don't want us to tell them where they should or shouldn't travel. It's a catch 22 for the FS sometimes, but at least on the snowshoe walks, we have a captive audience that we take full advantage of. I'm confident that we have reached a few, and will hopefully continue to do so.
Thanks, Kim
We talk to about 800-900 people each winter on our walks about winter ecology and safety, hopefully we are reaching a few who follow up with a formal avy course. My goal on the walks is to at least get folks interested in learning more about avy safety. Most truly have no idea that avalanches are even a threat. Or they feel like being out with the "ranger" somehow makes them immune to the dangers. At a minimum I encourage those just beginning snowshoeing to take a Level 1 course.
On our 1/2 day walks up Commonwealth Basin we are able to show and talk about some avalanche hazards, but I strongly emphasize that people need to take a formal course from professional avalanche educators.
One problem I've run into is that most Level 1 courses are designed for skiers. Snowshoers need courses that can be geared toward safe winter travel on snowshoes.
Any instructors out there who offer Level 1 courses that would be appropriate for snowshoers, let me know so I can post it at the Visitor Center and give people a place to go for that course.
We have also talked to snowshoe rental shops about safe areas to send snowshoers, especially beginners. We always try to steer folks away from areas that consistently pose a threat and are beyond their avy assessment capabilities. Any signing we've tried in the past often gets torn down. And really, people often tell us they don't want us to tell them where they should or shouldn't travel. It's a catch 22 for the FS sometimes, but at least on the snowshoe walks, we have a captive audience that we take full advantage of. I'm confident that we have reached a few, and will hopefully continue to do so.
Thanks, Kim
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- Larry_R
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18 years 1 month ago #180008
by Larry_R
Replied by Larry_R on topic Re: avalache awareness- for snowshoers
Welcome to TAY Kim,
Thanks much for posting here; we will all be looking forward eagerly to more postings from Rowena.
Gee, I wonder what Rowena does at the Cle Elum RD.
Perhaps you might mention a bit more about the walks; how to sign up, party size limit, etc. I do know the price. $ 0.00. It's a bargain you can't beat.
I've been meaning to go on one of the walks for some time to learn more about animal tracks in the snow, one of the topics Kim covers. I've got cougar, coyote, snowshoe rabbit, deer and elk down, everything else I call a 'marten'. Lott'a variation among those martens.
Larry
Thanks much for posting here; we will all be looking forward eagerly to more postings from Rowena.
Perhaps you might mention a bit more about the walks; how to sign up, party size limit, etc. I do know the price. $ 0.00. It's a bargain you can't beat.
I've been meaning to go on one of the walks for some time to learn more about animal tracks in the snow, one of the topics Kim covers. I've got cougar, coyote, snowshoe rabbit, deer and elk down, everything else I call a 'marten'. Lott'a variation among those martens.
Larry
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18 years 1 month ago #180023
by savegondor
Replied by savegondor on topic Re: avalache awareness- for snowshoers
I like what some companies have been doing for education (see various snow-shovels): printing instructions and advice on the products.
I know a lot of friends and aquaintences who are venturing out for their first time in avi country: they rent their gear and just go up, with scarcely more than a Hollywood understanding that there is such a thing as an 'avalanche'.
So why not start printing a few warnings on the snowshoes themselves? A Danger! "Snowshoeing in the mountains brings with it many inherent risks including trauma and death due to avalanches! Be educated, visit www.turns-all-year.com for information on local avalanche saftey courses."
I really like the shovels with painted diagrams of digging a snowpit. It's not enough. But it's a beginning.
Maybe one of us could produce a DVD or instruction card that REI would be willing to hand out as a first step toward education.
I know a lot of friends and aquaintences who are venturing out for their first time in avi country: they rent their gear and just go up, with scarcely more than a Hollywood understanding that there is such a thing as an 'avalanche'.
So why not start printing a few warnings on the snowshoes themselves? A Danger! "Snowshoeing in the mountains brings with it many inherent risks including trauma and death due to avalanches! Be educated, visit www.turns-all-year.com for information on local avalanche saftey courses."
I really like the shovels with painted diagrams of digging a snowpit. It's not enough. But it's a beginning.
Maybe one of us could produce a DVD or instruction card that REI would be willing to hand out as a first step toward education.
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