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Solo Backcountry Travel; Opinions; Recommendations
- ron j
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18 years 6 months ago - 18 years 6 months ago #178629
by ron j
This subject seems to come up fairly often in TR's but I don't recall a thread where it has received any in depth discussion.
After feeling a mild guilt pang for hijacking MadDog's TR to embellish on the topic it occurred to me that there are lots of folks on this board with a lot more experience than I, as well as some with less, that might likely weigh in on the subject were it presented as a separate topic. In that the question has come up more than once, I thought maybe it's time to dive right into it.
My current thoughts on the matter are copied below from the hijacked thread.
I would be very interested to see how others feel about solo backcountry travel and what your own personal recommendations would be to folks that are considering it.
________________________________________ __________
Re: August 5, 2007 MRNP Paradise
Reply #6 on: 8/7 at 08:03:27 AM
Quote from: skierlyles on 8/6 at 08:58:42 PM
"I was thinking of heading up to Paradise this weekend to get some turns in and wanted to clarify the locale of your recent outing. I am also going to fly solo so wanted to know what the cracks and such looked like if any, and if you do/do not recommend a solo outing. Looked like you all had some ropes in case so I assume there are manageable crevasses/cracks in that area?"
Skierlyles - It's really tough to give decent, responsible feedback to these kind of questions, to folks that you care about when you know little or nothing about them or their experience level. Of course if you were a highly experienced mountaineer, maybe the only question you might still be asking is "where was that" unless you recognized the area from the pictures.
Of course the only way to get the experience is to go. If you don't have reliable partners it is always difficult.
The best way I know of to get reliable ski partners is to be one. It's a bummer to show up at the trailhead and be the only one there, so make sure you are not the cause of that happening to someone else. Be flexible, congenial and responsible and you will develop reliable, compatible ski partners to go out with on a regular basis.
So back to what if there's no one to go with? Many of the folks on this board solo on occasion, including myself. But most of them have lots of experience in the mountains and understand the added risk of solo mountain travel, not to mention the potential fatal consequences of error.
One way to mitigate some of that risk is to plan a trip on a more heavily traveled route. The Muir Snowfield is a good example. That way if you mess up and hurt yourself you might still have help available through other travelers.
Also, when you just GO, there is always at least a 50/50 chance of teaming up with new folks at a busy trailhead. Be friendly and chatty with others that are gearing up to go. "Where you headed" and gear comments/questions are always good ice breakers. If it feels right a "you mind if I tag along with you?" will almost always be met with a positive response, unless maybe you have picked a newly dating couple that want to enjoy the mountains by themselves. I certainly wouldn't refuse a solo skier or boarder at the trailhead unless I felt like they were woefully ill prepared and equipped and/or in far worse condition than myself (in other words a certain "baby sitting chore" -- even then, I might still take them if I was feeling charitable).
As often as not there will be another solo skier or boarder at the trailhead in the same situation as you that will jump at the chance to team up with you. Teaming up with other skiers at the trailhead is also a great way to meet great ski partners. Ski mountaineering and glacier travel classes is another great method.
So that's my not so short version of my recommendations regarding solo backcountry skiing. I hope you find it helpful. Here's to your lifelong enjoyment of the mountains.
________________________________________ ________
Please respond with your thoughts and comments on the matter.
Solo Backcountry Travel; Opinions; Recommendations was created by ron j
[size=8pt](Kam - I sincerely hope you don't mind my using this exquisite photo for a segue into this topic. It seems to fit the subject so well)[/size]
This subject seems to come up fairly often in TR's but I don't recall a thread where it has received any in depth discussion.
After feeling a mild guilt pang for hijacking MadDog's TR to embellish on the topic it occurred to me that there are lots of folks on this board with a lot more experience than I, as well as some with less, that might likely weigh in on the subject were it presented as a separate topic. In that the question has come up more than once, I thought maybe it's time to dive right into it.
My current thoughts on the matter are copied below from the hijacked thread.
I would be very interested to see how others feel about solo backcountry travel and what your own personal recommendations would be to folks that are considering it.
________________________________________ __________
Re: August 5, 2007 MRNP Paradise
Reply #6 on: 8/7 at 08:03:27 AM
Quote from: skierlyles on 8/6 at 08:58:42 PM
"I was thinking of heading up to Paradise this weekend to get some turns in and wanted to clarify the locale of your recent outing. I am also going to fly solo so wanted to know what the cracks and such looked like if any, and if you do/do not recommend a solo outing. Looked like you all had some ropes in case so I assume there are manageable crevasses/cracks in that area?"
Skierlyles - It's really tough to give decent, responsible feedback to these kind of questions, to folks that you care about when you know little or nothing about them or their experience level. Of course if you were a highly experienced mountaineer, maybe the only question you might still be asking is "where was that" unless you recognized the area from the pictures.
Of course the only way to get the experience is to go. If you don't have reliable partners it is always difficult.
The best way I know of to get reliable ski partners is to be one. It's a bummer to show up at the trailhead and be the only one there, so make sure you are not the cause of that happening to someone else. Be flexible, congenial and responsible and you will develop reliable, compatible ski partners to go out with on a regular basis.
So back to what if there's no one to go with? Many of the folks on this board solo on occasion, including myself. But most of them have lots of experience in the mountains and understand the added risk of solo mountain travel, not to mention the potential fatal consequences of error.
One way to mitigate some of that risk is to plan a trip on a more heavily traveled route. The Muir Snowfield is a good example. That way if you mess up and hurt yourself you might still have help available through other travelers.
Also, when you just GO, there is always at least a 50/50 chance of teaming up with new folks at a busy trailhead. Be friendly and chatty with others that are gearing up to go. "Where you headed" and gear comments/questions are always good ice breakers. If it feels right a "you mind if I tag along with you?" will almost always be met with a positive response, unless maybe you have picked a newly dating couple that want to enjoy the mountains by themselves. I certainly wouldn't refuse a solo skier or boarder at the trailhead unless I felt like they were woefully ill prepared and equipped and/or in far worse condition than myself (in other words a certain "baby sitting chore" -- even then, I might still take them if I was feeling charitable).
As often as not there will be another solo skier or boarder at the trailhead in the same situation as you that will jump at the chance to team up with you. Teaming up with other skiers at the trailhead is also a great way to meet great ski partners. Ski mountaineering and glacier travel classes is another great method.
So that's my not so short version of my recommendations regarding solo backcountry skiing. I hope you find it helpful. Here's to your lifelong enjoyment of the mountains.
________________________________________ ________
Please respond with your thoughts and comments on the matter.
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- Lowell_Skoog
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18 years 6 months ago #178632
by Lowell_Skoog
Replied by Lowell_Skoog on topic Re: Solo Backcountry Travel; Opinions; Recommendations
I think a good idea for solo mountaineering--or any kind of mountaineering--is to start small and easy and "work up through the grades." Do short and straightforward trips before trying anything you might consider challenging or where the consequences of a problem are more serious.
Make a habit of letting somebody know your plans. If you change your plans, try to let somebody know, for example by leaving a note visible in your car. I know of several incidents where people were overdue in the mountains and nobody knew where they went. In one case the fellow walked out on his own. In another, the fellow has still not been found.
Make a habit of letting somebody know your plans. If you change your plans, try to let somebody know, for example by leaving a note visible in your car. I know of several incidents where people were overdue in the mountains and nobody knew where they went. In one case the fellow walked out on his own. In another, the fellow has still not been found.
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- JMor
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18 years 6 months ago #178639
by JMor
Replied by JMor on topic Re: Solo Backcountry Travel; Opinions; Recommendations
Everything that Ron and Lowell have pointed out are valuable suggestions to solo trips, and mountaineeriing in general. I don't do solo trips, and by my choice, will never do one. The best part of mountaineering for me is spending time with others who love the mountains and sharing in those experiences. Large groups in the bc are a turn off to me, and in my opinion detract from the overall experience, unless of course it's one of our annual TAY gatherings
. Give me a couple of friends to travel and ski with, and I'm a happy girl
that's what makes a great outing for me. I do, however love hearing/reading about those solo trips and imagine that you experience wonderful solitude and self accomplishment.
that's what makes a great outing for me. I do, however love hearing/reading about those solo trips and imagine that you experience wonderful solitude and self accomplishment. Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- jdclimber
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18 years 6 months ago #178641
by jdclimber
Replied by jdclimber on topic Re: Solo Backcountry Travel; Opinions; Recommendations
I would like to point out, first and foremost, the minimum party size for a skiing or mountaineering trip is one.
To elaborate on Lowell's point that a progression of difficulty and commitment for solo adventure is important. It is my strong believe that safe travel in the mountains (and possibly in life) is a matter of knowing the risks and exposure to those risk and how the risks have both a component of probability and consequences. As an example, while climbing solo in Rainier this spring, there were a number of factors involved in my ascent, namely:
1. Crevasse navigation
2. Weather
3. Snow conditions (skiability, not stability).
4. Speed.
5. Retreat
6. Consequences of accident based on possibility of rescue/assistance since I was solo.
To break down the thought process and decisions made:
1. Crevasse navigation - was of paramount concern, I was extra cautious because I was unroped. If I had been roped, I wouldn't have given it a second thought to most of what I was doing in terms of crevasse crossing. I wore skis with ski crampons for longer than I would have if I were roped.
2. Weather - when I first awoke at 0200 there was a lenticular, I went back to bed to see if it cleared, I ended up leaving at 0400 with clear skies. If I had been with someone I would have gone at 0200, no doubt.
3. Snow conditions- I kept my ice axe handy for the descent, same as if I were with a party.
4. Speed - I could move faster being alone. I was also more aware of my speed so as not to be "caught" up high later in the day, see #1 Crevasse navigation. Turn around time was "harder" than it would have been if I was in a party of more than 1.
5. Retreat - I used a GPS to track my upwards movements and leave a "trail". I would never have done that if I was with a party on the Emmons. I also spent a lot of time keeping track of location and elevation of traverses and crevasse crossings. More time than I would have if I was with a larger party. In fact the other party on the mountain (2 skiers) took the wrong way down. I did not follow their tracks because I had paid more attention on the ascent in planning for my descent. They got cliffed out and had to re-ascent a small distance.
6. Consequence of accident- I was one of three people on the Emmons that day. I skied very conservatively, I hucked very little, I skied tentatively, only a few times did I open it up, when I was sure it was safe.
The much maligned Mountaineers have a set of rules for mountaineering "The Climbing Code" which is an ok guideline. I think the most important point is that you can break some of the rules but you should know every time you break a rule and you should only break a rule when you have done the equation in your head and decided that the math works out for your survival.
The hardest, and in my opinion, most rewarding part of alpine travel is the game of first knowing all of the risks and consequences and then balancing them and determining what to do to maximize safety, and for that matter enjoyment. It takes years of experience and really cannot be taught in a formal setting.
Solo travel in the mountains has produced some of my most vivid and important experiences, shaping my personality and view of the world.
It is paramount that solo travel is done with much reflection and thought, both of which should occur before leaving the house and continue until returning to the house.
Minimum party size really is one.
To elaborate on Lowell's point that a progression of difficulty and commitment for solo adventure is important. It is my strong believe that safe travel in the mountains (and possibly in life) is a matter of knowing the risks and exposure to those risk and how the risks have both a component of probability and consequences. As an example, while climbing solo in Rainier this spring, there were a number of factors involved in my ascent, namely:
1. Crevasse navigation
2. Weather
3. Snow conditions (skiability, not stability).
4. Speed.
5. Retreat
6. Consequences of accident based on possibility of rescue/assistance since I was solo.
To break down the thought process and decisions made:
1. Crevasse navigation - was of paramount concern, I was extra cautious because I was unroped. If I had been roped, I wouldn't have given it a second thought to most of what I was doing in terms of crevasse crossing. I wore skis with ski crampons for longer than I would have if I were roped.
2. Weather - when I first awoke at 0200 there was a lenticular, I went back to bed to see if it cleared, I ended up leaving at 0400 with clear skies. If I had been with someone I would have gone at 0200, no doubt.
3. Snow conditions- I kept my ice axe handy for the descent, same as if I were with a party.
4. Speed - I could move faster being alone. I was also more aware of my speed so as not to be "caught" up high later in the day, see #1 Crevasse navigation. Turn around time was "harder" than it would have been if I was in a party of more than 1.
5. Retreat - I used a GPS to track my upwards movements and leave a "trail". I would never have done that if I was with a party on the Emmons. I also spent a lot of time keeping track of location and elevation of traverses and crevasse crossings. More time than I would have if I was with a larger party. In fact the other party on the mountain (2 skiers) took the wrong way down. I did not follow their tracks because I had paid more attention on the ascent in planning for my descent. They got cliffed out and had to re-ascent a small distance.
6. Consequence of accident- I was one of three people on the Emmons that day. I skied very conservatively, I hucked very little, I skied tentatively, only a few times did I open it up, when I was sure it was safe.
The much maligned Mountaineers have a set of rules for mountaineering "The Climbing Code" which is an ok guideline. I think the most important point is that you can break some of the rules but you should know every time you break a rule and you should only break a rule when you have done the equation in your head and decided that the math works out for your survival.
The hardest, and in my opinion, most rewarding part of alpine travel is the game of first knowing all of the risks and consequences and then balancing them and determining what to do to maximize safety, and for that matter enjoyment. It takes years of experience and really cannot be taught in a formal setting.
Solo travel in the mountains has produced some of my most vivid and important experiences, shaping my personality and view of the world.
It is paramount that solo travel is done with much reflection and thought, both of which should occur before leaving the house and continue until returning to the house.
Minimum party size really is one.
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- MW88888888
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18 years 6 months ago #178643
by MW88888888
Replied by MW88888888 on topic Re: Solo Backcountry Travel; Opinions; Recommendations
I chuckle sometimes when I read and or hear the militant Mountaineering group's rules of backcountry travel, especially the "thou shalt not travel alone" commandment. I equate it to a marketing push - drive up demand (in mountaineering group's parlance "membership") due to self determined rules.
Wait, did I say that aloud? That's the cynic in me. Let's try this again.
I solo ski all the time. Maybe 30% of my 60 days a year. Maybe more. Why? Lots of reasons. But the biggest reason is that I love to ski, and not everyone's schedule (or level of insanity) is like mine. Just because no-one I *know* is going skiing doesn't mean I won't ski. It just means I have to adjust the day's outing. The above points on risk assessment/exeperience are excellent, so no need to restate those points. But particular to me, here's how I address the solo ski:
1. Phone call to the "Solo Skier's Hotline". Gotta love technology. This one was not an option when I first started skiing, but what a great method to keep your ski outing on the radar. On the drive up to the mountain, after you've sussed out your route (which we'll get to momentarily), make a cell phone call to your Solo Skiers Hotline (usually someone who will be envious of the powder turns you will be making, so choose wisely, this is where you can revel in your glory at someone else's expense. A loved one makes an adequate, albeit sometimes more of a pain in the ass, substitute. Call your Mom or spouse as a last resort, after all, don't you know you shouldn't ski alone?!?). Update the Solo Skiers Hotline on your return to your car and the cushy drive to work. Rub it in, that's what the Hot Line is for!
2. Choose an outing that you already know. This improves your survival rate because you know terrain, usual snow conditions, and how to bail safely. A solo tour is not the time to go out exploring.
Aside from these things, understand that you could die out there. Seriously. But also undertand that you could die out there if you were in a group of 20. The objective dangers of the backcountry experience does not change due to the size of the group with which you travel.
Travel smart, alone and in groups, and have a long, happy life.
Be truthful to yourself and have a blast.
Wait, did I say that aloud? That's the cynic in me. Let's try this again.
I solo ski all the time. Maybe 30% of my 60 days a year. Maybe more. Why? Lots of reasons. But the biggest reason is that I love to ski, and not everyone's schedule (or level of insanity) is like mine. Just because no-one I *know* is going skiing doesn't mean I won't ski. It just means I have to adjust the day's outing. The above points on risk assessment/exeperience are excellent, so no need to restate those points. But particular to me, here's how I address the solo ski:
1. Phone call to the "Solo Skier's Hotline". Gotta love technology. This one was not an option when I first started skiing, but what a great method to keep your ski outing on the radar. On the drive up to the mountain, after you've sussed out your route (which we'll get to momentarily), make a cell phone call to your Solo Skiers Hotline (usually someone who will be envious of the powder turns you will be making, so choose wisely, this is where you can revel in your glory at someone else's expense. A loved one makes an adequate, albeit sometimes more of a pain in the ass, substitute. Call your Mom or spouse as a last resort, after all, don't you know you shouldn't ski alone?!?). Update the Solo Skiers Hotline on your return to your car and the cushy drive to work. Rub it in, that's what the Hot Line is for!
2. Choose an outing that you already know. This improves your survival rate because you know terrain, usual snow conditions, and how to bail safely. A solo tour is not the time to go out exploring.
Aside from these things, understand that you could die out there. Seriously. But also undertand that you could die out there if you were in a group of 20. The objective dangers of the backcountry experience does not change due to the size of the group with which you travel.
Travel smart, alone and in groups, and have a long, happy life.
Be truthful to yourself and have a blast.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Don_B
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18 years 5 months ago #178687
by Don_B
Replied by Don_B on topic Re: Solo Backcountry Travel; Opinions; Recommendations
Great posts. I’ll add to it not because I pretend to be any kind of expert or advocate either way, but because I’ve had a couple of incidents in the last few years that brought home the risks. BC travel with others is great for the social aspects, group safety and learning opportunities. But I do also ski, hike and run trails solo, and have for 40 years now, because my work week is full and I don’t have time to plan trips out in advance and get partners lined up. Or they bail at the last minute. I’ve run into pleasure and trouble either way.
What I like about traveling solo: Really being present. Really observing and participating in the place you are in. Being aware. No shop talk. Travel at your own pace as long as you want to, especially for long endurance travel.
For safety, I am more conservative traveling alone, and much more focused. I tend to follow routes that I think others will be following on later in the day, or at least be near enough to see or hear. However, it is amazing how few people actually are out there a couple of miles from most trailheads. I wear bright clothes for visibility. I take enough gear to spend the night, fix and cut loose things, and navigate. I don’t rely on anything that needs batteries. I always leave an itinerary with road directions and intended route with someone who knows when to expect me back.
When traveling in a group, all this can go to hell, and the extra margin of safety of having potential assistance nearby gets used right up. Talking can interfere with awareness of surroundings. There are studies of the “using up” of safety margins provided by seatbelts, helmets, avalanche beacons, maneuverable sportscars, or sturdy 4WD. People tend to push it to their own comfort/risk zone and wind up at their own risk level no matter what level of protection they have. People behind the first in line tend to assume that the one in front has assessed surroundings and accounted properly for risks. Blindly following the leader, failure to communicate, and impossibility of communication if separated from the party, can be as dangerous as solo travel.
Here’s a TR from a trip that I was really glad to have companions along to call for rescue and get me off the mountain before dark. But maybe if I’d been solo I would not have skied that last icy slope. www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboardi...2391.msg9050#msg9050
Here’s a TR from a solo trip where I spent an un-planned night out in safety and was comfortable enough, but might have avoided the whole adventure and saved my wife and friends a lot of worry if I had not hooked up with others for awhile and lost my focus on navigation. And had a better map. On the other hand, if I had stayed in a group, we’d probably have kept going and worked our way out even if it was dark. www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboardi...38.msg28164#msg28164
What I like about traveling solo: Really being present. Really observing and participating in the place you are in. Being aware. No shop talk. Travel at your own pace as long as you want to, especially for long endurance travel.
For safety, I am more conservative traveling alone, and much more focused. I tend to follow routes that I think others will be following on later in the day, or at least be near enough to see or hear. However, it is amazing how few people actually are out there a couple of miles from most trailheads. I wear bright clothes for visibility. I take enough gear to spend the night, fix and cut loose things, and navigate. I don’t rely on anything that needs batteries. I always leave an itinerary with road directions and intended route with someone who knows when to expect me back.
When traveling in a group, all this can go to hell, and the extra margin of safety of having potential assistance nearby gets used right up. Talking can interfere with awareness of surroundings. There are studies of the “using up” of safety margins provided by seatbelts, helmets, avalanche beacons, maneuverable sportscars, or sturdy 4WD. People tend to push it to their own comfort/risk zone and wind up at their own risk level no matter what level of protection they have. People behind the first in line tend to assume that the one in front has assessed surroundings and accounted properly for risks. Blindly following the leader, failure to communicate, and impossibility of communication if separated from the party, can be as dangerous as solo travel.
Here’s a TR from a trip that I was really glad to have companions along to call for rescue and get me off the mountain before dark. But maybe if I’d been solo I would not have skied that last icy slope. www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboardi...2391.msg9050#msg9050
Here’s a TR from a solo trip where I spent an un-planned night out in safety and was comfortable enough, but might have avoided the whole adventure and saved my wife and friends a lot of worry if I had not hooked up with others for awhile and lost my focus on navigation. And had a better map. On the other hand, if I had stayed in a group, we’d probably have kept going and worked our way out even if it was dark. www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboardi...38.msg28164#msg28164
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