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Poll: what portion of the year for avy gear?

  • sb
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18 years 10 months ago #177760 by sb
I have certainly seen some peculiar and very deceptive conditions in both April and May where serious avy danger was hiding under a thin layer of corn. Please keep in mind though that your beacon is not your first line of defense - route selection is, combined with careful observation of the weather and conditions of the past weeks. In particular, be careful of a heavy fall of cold snow followed by warm spring conditions for a few days. I would not expect a beacon to be much help in the event of getting hit by a cornice fall or serious wet snow slide.

While I rarely use a beacon while late spring or summer skiing I almost always carry a shovel. Not only can it dig someone out, it can dig a snow cave or just level a platform if there's a problem.

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  • Amar Andalkar
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18 years 10 months ago #177774 by Amar Andalkar
Replied by Amar Andalkar on topic Re: Poll: what portion of the year for avy gear?
I usually take the avy gear from Nov-May, but that being said, the only time I've ever been caught in an avalanche (large wet sluff) was in June on Lassen Peak (see TAY report, June 2003 ). Conditions were sketchy that day, especially since we were probably 2-3 hrs too late in skiing such a steep face.

I'm also flexible about leaving the avy gear behind even in winter and early spring (i.e. frozen crust, after 7-10 days of sun, very low avy hazard) or on certain routes (e.g. Muir Snowfield in low avy hazard, when Pan Point has no chance of causing trouble). Many people might frown on my actions in those cases. Conversely, I would make sure to bring the avy gear even in June, Sept, or Oct if there had been significant recent snowfall (1ft+ in the past few days). July and August are the only months where such snowfall is highly unlikely in the Cascades, although it can still happen up high; I remember Shasta getting 1-2 ft in the first week of July 2000, above 8-9000 ft.

If you were going to climb/ski the standard route on St. Helens in mid-April, (slope angles "up to 25 degrees" according to Selected Climbs in the Cascades) would you bring your avy gear? My instinct would be a definite "yes", but one particular group I was thinking of going with was leaning against bringing it.


I really like Jim's book, but the St Helens angle listed is way too low. The map angle on the upper part of that slope is 34 degrees (400 ft rise over 600 ft run between 7600 and 8000 ft contours, and arctan[4/6] = 33.7 deg). The map angle is the minimum possible slope which must be climbed or skied on a route, since portions of the route must always be steeper than that. A similar underestimate of the Emmons glacier in the first edition of that book (slopes up to 30 degrees) was corrected to say "slopes to 40 degrees" in the 2nd edition, so maybe the St Helens slope info will be updated eventually.

If the Worm Flows route were in fact 25 degrees, avy issues would be quite minimal on it (like Muir Snowfield above Pan Point). But the route is absolutely prime avalanche terrain, and at 34 degrees with many steeper rolls on either side, is all too close to the magic avy angle of 38 degrees. Some of the biggest piles of avy debris I've ever seen have been deposited in the gullies on this route, see another TAY report, Feb 2004 for details. Avy caution is highly advised on this route, even on a sunny day in April.


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  • alpymarr
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18 years 10 months ago #177777 by alpymarr
I always tell myself that I would feel really dumb If my buddy was buried and we didnt have gear. I have it, its not that heavy and I am used to bringing it skiing anyways. I also use it for mountianeering too. Even though icefall and glacial avalanches are really hard to come out of alive, you never know. There are and will be fatal slides in WA and OR mid summer on the volcanoes. So if thats your cup of tea, bring the stuff.

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  • garyabrill
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18 years 10 months ago #177778 by garyabrill
Replied by garyabrill on topic Re: Poll: what portion of the year for avy gear?


but the St Helens angle listed is way too low. The map angle on the upper part of that slope is 34 degrees (400 ft rise over 600 ft run between 7600 and 8000 ft contours, and arctan[4/6] = 33.7 deg).


That caught my eye, too. There aren't a lot of mountains whose steepest slopes are in the 25 degree angle range.
Really, few are less steep than 35 degrees.

As to carrying a transceiver, it is snowpack history that is the determinant. Sometimes even in the winter after a rain followed by frozen conditions a transceiver may be superfluous. That can be true especially nowadays when NWAC telemetry can allow for a check on new snow amounts.

Normally, in spring, for me, not carrying a transceiver is nearly coincidental with not bothering to carry skis. Until suncups form and the snow surface becomes dirty, especially above 6000' avalanche hazard isn't uncommon (except on very cold days). This transition can vary, and summer snows may occur below 7500' or so on occasion, but ordinarily the snowpack is not yet consolidated until somewhere between the 10th and 25th of June. I've certainly seen highly unstable snow through the 20th to 25th a number of times. But again, this is very dependent on elevation and aspect, as well as snowpack history. To reiterate, I think suncups are the best determinant as to snowpack consolidation longer term.

Above 8-9000' is something of a different story, since consolidation tends to be slower and not surprisingly, sometimes suncups don't form.

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  • korup
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18 years 10 months ago #177798 by korup
The only time I don't bring my gear is summer outings to the Muir. My impression from reading about wet slides is that they are very difficult to predict, and the triggers (human or otherwise) are not well understood. Avi gear isn't that heavy; I feel like since I own it there is no reason not to bring it along.

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