- Posts: 128
- Thank you received: 0
Snoqualmie area snomo closures
- Larry_R
-
Topic Author
- User
-
Less
More
19 years 1 month ago #176878
by Larry_R
Snoqualmie area snomo closures was created by Larry_R
December 11, 2006
Last spring there was a discussion of whether or not it was legal to use snowmobiles to access the terrain around Silver Peak in this tread:
www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboardi...dex.php?topic=4511.0
Some posts seemed to suggest that motorized use was OK, and the actual FS orders that governed use were not immediately available.
It's taken me a bit of time to track this issue down, but here's my understanding of the prohibitions on snomo use on the south side of I-90 in the Snoqualmie Pass area. If you want to skip the detail, there is a summary below of what I believe are the legal requirements.
By the way, this is just part of the larger issue of the future of non-motorized winter recreation along the I-90 corridor. Don Brooks and Charlie Cornish are working with their respective clubs (Snoqualmie Nordic, The Mountaineers, Washington Alpine Club, Kongsbergers, WSTC) to organize an effort to address these concerns in conjunction with the USFS and Washington State Parks.
Thanks to Todd Styles, the Cle Elum RD winter rec coordinator for contacting the appropriate person in the MBSNF, which administers this area and obtaining the applicable orders. I've had a chance to study the these documents and their exhibits for a while. This map , which I have merged from several of the exhibits, represents my understanding of the restrictions. The orders apply only to Forest Service land; land administered by the FS. Because of the checkerboard pattern of land ownership which originated with the building of the railroads, the regulations do not apply to portions of the Snoqualmie pass ski terrain, e.g. Snoqualmie Central. Notice also that Silver Peak is not in a section owned by the FS (shaded light gray). However, access to this section requires crossing FS land, and thus FS regulations effectively control motorized use.
On the closure map , note that the blue shaded roads are closed when posted, but that the off road areas shaded in light blue are permanently closed to motorized vehicles. Penalties for violations are significant - a fine of up to $5,000 and/or imprisonment for up to six months.
Should anyone wish to consider the actual legalese, the specific orders are:
ORDER NUMBER: 06-05-NB-05-08 and ORDER NUMBER: 06-05-NB-05-05
MT. BAKER-SNOQUALMIE NATIONAL FOREST
REGION 6, FOREST SERVICE, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
These are public documents and should be available for viewing at the North Bend Ranger Station.
The Hyak Lake Road has not been posted as closed in the past during past snow seasons, but that has changed. Closure signs were placed in strategic locations on Dec 22.
I'll skip the topic of what constitutes adequate 'posting' that would be acceptable in court, except to mention that making the claim that 'I didn't see any sign' is a rather shaky defense.
Also, I expect the Cle Elum Ranger District to soon close the remaining loophole whereby snomobiliers might try to gain access via area administered by the Wenatchee Okanogan NF.
The specific wording of the exceptions for each of the orders is pertinent should local residents claim a right to use these areas for motorized activity.
With regard to road closures, the following are exempted:
- Owners or lessees of land in the area with right of access on roads through an easement, share cost agreement, special use permit, or other valid instrument.
- Residents in the area with right of access on roads only.
["In the area" means within the area covered by the order; FS land. There are few if any that would meet this requirement.]
The exemptions for the off road areas are as follows.
"Pursuant to 36 CFR 261.50(e), the following persons are exempt from this order:
1.. Persons with a permit authorizing the otherwise prohibited act or omission.
2.. Employees of the developed ski area(s) concerned, when acting in an official capacity.
3.. Any Federal, State or local officer or member of an organized rescue or fire fighting force in the performance of an official duty.
4.. Owners or lessee of land in the area. [Note: 'area' means the specific area covered by the order.]
I'm told that these exemptions are all intended to cover a few very specific circumstances.
Summary: It is illegal for snowmobiles to use the roads highlighted in blue on the attached file when they are posted. It is expected that the roads will remain posted until after the spring skiing season is finished. Specifically "Hyak Lake Road (Rd #9070-110) [is] closed to motor vehicles when posted". (This road is now so posted.) The orders do not mention specific seasons.
It is also illegal for snowmobiles to be on any area shaded in light blue at any time.
Along with the expected closure of the minor loophole noted above, this effectively denies legal access to the Silver Peak area by snowmobile.
Larry
Last spring there was a discussion of whether or not it was legal to use snowmobiles to access the terrain around Silver Peak in this tread:
www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboardi...dex.php?topic=4511.0
Some posts seemed to suggest that motorized use was OK, and the actual FS orders that governed use were not immediately available.
It's taken me a bit of time to track this issue down, but here's my understanding of the prohibitions on snomo use on the south side of I-90 in the Snoqualmie Pass area. If you want to skip the detail, there is a summary below of what I believe are the legal requirements.
By the way, this is just part of the larger issue of the future of non-motorized winter recreation along the I-90 corridor. Don Brooks and Charlie Cornish are working with their respective clubs (Snoqualmie Nordic, The Mountaineers, Washington Alpine Club, Kongsbergers, WSTC) to organize an effort to address these concerns in conjunction with the USFS and Washington State Parks.
Thanks to Todd Styles, the Cle Elum RD winter rec coordinator for contacting the appropriate person in the MBSNF, which administers this area and obtaining the applicable orders. I've had a chance to study the these documents and their exhibits for a while. This map , which I have merged from several of the exhibits, represents my understanding of the restrictions. The orders apply only to Forest Service land; land administered by the FS. Because of the checkerboard pattern of land ownership which originated with the building of the railroads, the regulations do not apply to portions of the Snoqualmie pass ski terrain, e.g. Snoqualmie Central. Notice also that Silver Peak is not in a section owned by the FS (shaded light gray). However, access to this section requires crossing FS land, and thus FS regulations effectively control motorized use.
On the closure map , note that the blue shaded roads are closed when posted, but that the off road areas shaded in light blue are permanently closed to motorized vehicles. Penalties for violations are significant - a fine of up to $5,000 and/or imprisonment for up to six months.
Should anyone wish to consider the actual legalese, the specific orders are:
ORDER NUMBER: 06-05-NB-05-08 and ORDER NUMBER: 06-05-NB-05-05
MT. BAKER-SNOQUALMIE NATIONAL FOREST
REGION 6, FOREST SERVICE, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
These are public documents and should be available for viewing at the North Bend Ranger Station.
The Hyak Lake Road has not been posted as closed in the past during past snow seasons, but that has changed. Closure signs were placed in strategic locations on Dec 22.
I'll skip the topic of what constitutes adequate 'posting' that would be acceptable in court, except to mention that making the claim that 'I didn't see any sign' is a rather shaky defense.
Also, I expect the Cle Elum Ranger District to soon close the remaining loophole whereby snomobiliers might try to gain access via area administered by the Wenatchee Okanogan NF.
The specific wording of the exceptions for each of the orders is pertinent should local residents claim a right to use these areas for motorized activity.
With regard to road closures, the following are exempted:
- Owners or lessees of land in the area with right of access on roads through an easement, share cost agreement, special use permit, or other valid instrument.
- Residents in the area with right of access on roads only.
["In the area" means within the area covered by the order; FS land. There are few if any that would meet this requirement.]
The exemptions for the off road areas are as follows.
"Pursuant to 36 CFR 261.50(e), the following persons are exempt from this order:
1.. Persons with a permit authorizing the otherwise prohibited act or omission.
2.. Employees of the developed ski area(s) concerned, when acting in an official capacity.
3.. Any Federal, State or local officer or member of an organized rescue or fire fighting force in the performance of an official duty.
4.. Owners or lessee of land in the area. [Note: 'area' means the specific area covered by the order.]
I'm told that these exemptions are all intended to cover a few very specific circumstances.
Summary: It is illegal for snowmobiles to use the roads highlighted in blue on the attached file when they are posted. It is expected that the roads will remain posted until after the spring skiing season is finished. Specifically "Hyak Lake Road (Rd #9070-110) [is] closed to motor vehicles when posted". (This road is now so posted.) The orders do not mention specific seasons.
It is also illegal for snowmobiles to be on any area shaded in light blue at any time.
Along with the expected closure of the minor loophole noted above, this effectively denies legal access to the Silver Peak area by snowmobile.
Larry
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Jerm
-
- User
-
Less
More
- Posts: 232
- Thank you received: 0
19 years 1 month ago #176926
by Jerm
Is the loophole you are referring to the roads along the south side of Keechelus Lake? I would expect most snowmobiles would come in that way anyway, since there is no good place to offload sleds at Hyak, and it is a straight shot from the Crystal Springs Sno Park. Are sleds really driving right through the middle of the touring network? That is pretty bold, I would think the ski area could police this better than anyone, since they would be trespassing on their permit area.
Replied by Jerm on topic Re: Snoqualmie area snomo closures
Is the loophole you are referring to the roads along the south side of Keechelus Lake? I would expect most snowmobiles would come in that way anyway, since there is no good place to offload sleds at Hyak, and it is a straight shot from the Crystal Springs Sno Park. Are sleds really driving right through the middle of the touring network? That is pretty bold, I would think the ski area could police this better than anyone, since they would be trespassing on their permit area.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- hyak.net
-
- User
-
Less
More
- Posts: 601
- Thank you received: 0
19 years 1 month ago #176930
by hyak.net
Replied by hyak.net on topic Re: Snoqualmie area snomo closures
The ski area does not police the area and shows little interest in stopping the poachers. There have been some folks in the past that have been so bold as to unload in the lower ski area parking lot and just ride right up the ski area and over towards Catherine and such.
The residents at Hyak know exactly where the poachers live, and their sleds sit right out in front of their cabins (renters are the biggest problem). Until the FS gets serious and slaps some fines down, nothing will change.
This year does not seem to be as bad as it has been in the past, but the year is not over. Spring just after the ski area closes is when it gets real nasty. Last year the poachers had BBQ's up top at the ski patrol shack (they cut the lock and partied inside the building), and the ski area did nothing. This went on for weeks.
The residents at Hyak know exactly where the poachers live, and their sleds sit right out in front of their cabins (renters are the biggest problem). Until the FS gets serious and slaps some fines down, nothing will change.
This year does not seem to be as bad as it has been in the past, but the year is not over. Spring just after the ski area closes is when it gets real nasty. Last year the poachers had BBQ's up top at the ski patrol shack (they cut the lock and partied inside the building), and the ski area did nothing. This went on for weeks.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.