moderator's note

Thanks for your efforts and your explanation, Mark.<br><br>I have no objections to political comments in threads related to skiing.  Randonnee's contributions in the global warming thread have been welcome and appreciated.  That is clearly a skiing related topic, but also one with a political component.  So there's nothing wrong with an exchange of political opinions there.<br><br>Regarding the "hand slapping" of Ron J. in the global warming thread, I believe I was the one who did it.  My objection was that his post didn't talk about the subject at hand, but instead focused solely on the virtues, or lack thereof, of liberals versus conservatives.  I didn't think that was helpful or appropriate, and as I remember (I haven't looked back at the thread), Ron agreed.<br><br>I don't see a double standard here.  I've seen no effort by moderators to stifle political expression in skiing related threads.  Mark's action was to delete a political thread with no skiing content.  That seems reasonable to me.<br>

How can there be an attack on a Moderator when a poster such as myself is powerless? My words are all that I have, otherwise the content of this forum are not within my control. I do not even try to use my name as some sort of endorsement of what I write.

I thought that the deleted post contained a link to an interesting and potentially amusing column by George Will. I do not recall that I wrote anything negative at all, and one can laugh at George Will just as easily as getting mad about it.

I sense that others feel as I have, in that politics was not something that I wanted to read about on TAY. However, I feel that conservative-bashing or Bush- hating comments are de rigeur here on TAY and are OK (Guess what-GW Bush is not high on my list of Presidents, historically-speaking). Some who make those comments may not realize that there are other skiers with different views who are not wanting to see blatent political comments. However, after looking at TAY for two years, and the political comments, the GW thread kind of made me decide it was time to speak up.

I saw the original post but could not act on it at the time. I would have done as Mark did, for the reasons Mark gave. There was no obvious personal opinion expressed in the post. The post clearly appeared to be a provocation unrelated to anything that this site is about. This moderation action was not censorship, it was an attempt to keep this forum on topic - skiing.<br><br>Here's something that I remember Mitch having to point out on Ttips at one point: this forum is not a "public space" and therefore there is no right to "free-speech" here. Every registered member has agreed to the Terms of Use, which give TAY admin/moderators final say on all content. Despite these facts, the moderators of this forum make every attempt to allow "free-speech" to occur. Out of 17000+ posts there have probably been about a dozen deleted. Most deleted posts have involved obvious personal attacks, a few were inflammatory in some other unconstructive way, and a few were just plain porn spam. I think that is a pretty good track record, and reflects both the good intentions of the moderators and the good intentions and thoughtfulness of the people who post here.<br><br>The overriding goal of the moderation here is to allow people to discuss anything and everything related to skiing (with emphasis on bc), and express their views, even if in the minority, without being subjected to ridicule or personal attack. As a group we've struggled a few times but made it through successfully, and are probably better for it. Sorry to be harsh, but after all of this work if there is still someone who feels that the moderation here is not to their liking, then I would suggest that this is not the place for that person and that they should look elsewhere for a forum which better suits their needs.<br><br>

Charles, not harsh, no problem. Clearly the website is yours and must be solely Administrated at your discretion, unapologetically.<br><br>I had hoped to start a discussion about another area on TAY to post political commentary- appropriately and in a civil manner. Political commentary already is rampant on TAY and could be directed to the appropriate forum. Perhaps you do not wish to use TAY resources for this. If your desire is no politics on TAY, how about enforcing that?<br><br>My skitour partner today is a Puget Sound native and quickly agreed to the double standard found there- the one in place here at TAY. That double standard is 'conservative, fine, shut up, be quiet, and behave.' <br><br>For example, blaming one or another political party for NWAC or MRNP funding, or global warming issues, is blatant politics- and perhaps simply faulty and terribly uninformed opinions. Those are examples, many exist on TAY postings. As I said, I did not start looking at TAY in order to read liberal political comments, but it is unavoidable. Others have similar feelings, see the PM to me, I will not divulge the author:<br><br>Your not the only one out there. I just bite my tongue and smile. But that's just becuase I'm shy. (end quote)<br><br>It is not my intent to offend anyone. However, there are some interesting responses out there. I do not get offended by other's comments, but wonder if you feel your ears burn at times (HA!). The carte blanche for liberal comments on TAY sometimes makes me wonder why I look at it- then I realize that I enjoy the postings and the comments of the folks behind the postings. These days, some seem to be offended easily and constantly.

Charles, Markharf and all other moderators <br><br> I feel you guys do a great job, as for being one of those having had a post deleted (and a liberal one at that!!!) I do agree this site is about skiing and that&#8217;s why I check it, weather, snow pack, route conditions and entertaining stories of routes I no longer will even consider thinking of skiing. I have no interest in seeing this site became a platform for politics insofar as one can maintain that separation in these days and times. There are certainly plenty of other platforms for me to get on a soapbox&#8230; Having had the pleasure of skiing with a handful of folks involved with this site I have no interest in making things harder or more bothersome&#8230;.. to all out there Charles has busted it at times, keeping this site up and improving it year to year, we are indeed fortunate to have TAY Look around the country and see what else is out there&#8230;. which reminds me I need to send in my donation &#8230;. <br><br>CW<br>

I do not even try to use my name as some sort of endorsement of what I write.

<br><br>That's an interesting way to look at it. Over on the Couloir Magazine board , Lou Dawson writes, "Courtesy and deference are the oil of society. Be yourself since anonymity breeds obnoxiousness."<br><br>I'm with Lou. Using your name means taking responsibility for your words. If you prefer to think of it as spending political capital, then you'll also want to build up such capital with trip reports and respectful discussions.