Resort Touring While Lifts Are Running?

A couple years ago I booted straight up the middle (yes, I know it was stupid) of Skid Road at Crystal to check out conditions mid-mountain before I forked over money for a ticket.<br><br>Not a single person hassled me. I had a couple people stop to ask why I was hiking, but nothing more.<br><br>Last year I met a telemarker riding the Forest Queen lift in order to access Avalanche Basin via skins, as far as I know it was cool with the watchdogs.<br><br>nick

Last March at Whistler I enjoyed touring the inbounds, avalanche mitigated area. To make a good circuit from the top I skied 1500 vert. down the back out of bounds and then followed the locals' skin track back up to the ridge and the inbounds side. Two nice powder runs per circuit. Some locals just skinned up the far (from the lift and crowds) boundary from inbounds to ski the inbounds untracked that remained for the 3 days that I was there. The circuit that I took included a lift ride, and a stop for lunch and hot drinks at the little hut- sort of a European experience. There is also The Singing Pass trail from the bottom if you really want to start hiking or skinning without buying a ticket.<br><br>At Mission Ridge a USFS trail takes off from the parking lot to Clara and Marion Lakes. At the end of the trail is open flat(ish) slope, and going southwest in the open leads to near the top of Mission Ridge ski area. It is a pretty ski tour, there are lots of openings and big Larch trees (Wenatchee Mtns country!). There are open short slopes up high with that sweet Wenatchee Mtns snow to ski. It is not a lot of great turns, just short pitches but a nice skitour (otherwise I would not talk about it!).<br><br>At Stevens Pass the DOT has a snowcat road that takes off from the highest lot and through the cabins (eg Mountaineers) and out of bounds of the ski area to above the ski area. The road now is overrun with boarders ducking out of bounds. Up high are some slopes to ski. The DOT puts up closure signs up high at Grace Lakes for the artillery impact zones. They drive up there so they can set out big bombs in the top of the Old Faithful avalanche path. And there is the packed road to the microwave tower on the north side of Hwy 2. One could also go through the base area and angle up to the PCT (crosses Big Chief) and follow it through the forest to the ridgecrest, crossing a few less used ungroomed runs up at Tye Mill.<br><br>There are good opportunities to ski tour up near ski areas if one does not want to even buy a single ride. When I want to tour, the last thing I want to see and hear are a lot of other people and activities, so I wonder why one wants to skin up a busy ski area in operation. <br><br>I question the attitude about being questioned in regard to skinning up in an operating ski area. That (US) area operates under USFS permit and the area and skiers are subject to WA state law in regard to ski areas. The ski area skiers are also owners of our public land, and have additionally paid for the service of lift served skiing. The paying ski area customers have the right to expect safe skiing, and if you interfere with that as an unpaid uphill skier you may be at fault in regard to several aspects of the law. <br>

During last year's wonderful in-bounds ski season, I skinned up Summit Central a few times while my son was in ski lessons. No comments from the patrollers - lucky for them.....and I'm also a season pass holder. <br><br>In-bounds you don't necessarily need to worry about getting taken out by an avalanche as much as the other skiers.....for this reason I made sure I was off to the side and aware of what was coming downhill. I figure if I do this rather than zig-zag up the center of a run everyone will leave me alone.

This is a timely subject. I was approached two times Saturday morning by Summit West ski patrol staff. I was skinning up the slopes before the lifts opened (to the public) trying to get a quick run in to shake down some new skis. A ski patrol member initially approached me on his pre-opening hill sweep. I was told there was a new policy this year - no uphill traffic allowed after the area opened. I decided not to worry about it and continued on figuring I would be to the top before the opening bell.<br><br>I was approached a few minutes later by other patrol staff (group of three). They told me they had been asked to see if I had a lift ticket. I said no. They had a slightly different story and indicated that there was new policy this year prohibiting anyone from being within the ski area boundary without a lift ticket. They were quite apologetic about having to challenge me and told me they did not agree with the policy. They even suggested that I might want to make outdoor organizations like the Mountaineers aware of the policy. I did not think to ask, but assume the new policy applies to all Summit areas, including Alpental. <br><br>The closest ski area boundary was the uphill boundary so that is where I headed - and had a great run down. <br><br>I always assumed that Snoq Summit operated, at least in part, on USFS leased land. I am wondering what kind of latitude the leaseholder has with regard to establishment of these kinds of policies, especially when a publicized USFS mission statement is "to provide the greatest amount of good for the greatest amount of people in the long run." I can understand there may need to be occasional limits for safety reasons, but a total ban on non-ticketed individuals seems a bit over the top.<br>

<br>I always assumed that Snoq Summit operated, at least in part, on USFS leased land. I am wondering what kind of latitude the leaseholder has with regard to establishment of these kinds of policies, especially when a publicized USFS mission statement is "to provide the greatest amount of good for the greatest amount of people in the long run." I can understand there may need to be occasional limits for safety reasons, but a total ban on non-ticketed individuals seems a bit over the top.<br>

<br><br>Just to play devils advocate here......<br><br>Over on Yellowstone road there are many cabins located on leased USFS land. Would you expect those folks who leased that land to allow you to pitch a tent on the land they leased, or should they have any say if you wanted to go hiking through that same land?<br><br>The Snoqualmie ski areas are a combination of private and leased land. I would assume there might be some liability assumed by the ski area too, if they allowed non-paying folks to hike the slopes. What if a skier ran into someone hiking uphill and was hurt. Could he sue the ski area because they allowed this person to hike the hill? <br><br>I hike the hills myself, but I always try to do so nearest to the boundry if possible. I've seen some folks hike right up the middle of a run, which sometimes can be a pain in the butt for people skiing/boarding downhill and personally I feel that type of ski-area hiking is very inconsiderate to those who have paid for the use of the hill (just my opinion). <br><br>If you are descrete about your hiking, most of the time there won't be an issue. If you hike in a way that says "hey look at me, I'm hiking uphill" then you can expect the snow cops to come looking for you because you may be a hazard to others or even a liability to the ski area.<br>

Over on Yellowstone road there are many cabins located on leased USFS land.  Would you expect those folks who leased that land to allow you to pitch a tent on the land they leased, or should they have any say if you wanted to go hiking through that same land?

<br><br>In Scandinavia there is a tradition called "Everyman's right" ( "Allemansret" ) which holds that you may cross another person's land and even camp for a night as long as you don't damage anything or intrude too much on the landowner's privacy. (My Swedish heart swells with pride at such a progressive notion.)<br><br>Obviously the U.S. is a very different place. But considering that you're talking about leased public land, I don't think the person leasing the land should get too darned proprietary about it.