Avalanche:  Harsh lessons

Background: Dec 12-13, two avy fatalities. Two deadly avalanches. 3 snowshoers (not just one, but the whole party) caught "near" Artist's Pt, 1 snowshoer caught in Source Lk Basin following tracks set by a group lead by Mtn. Madness Inc..<br><br><br>YOU can help save lives.<br>&gt;&gt;. . . I am thinking about my own decision-making process. . . &lt;&lt; - markharf<br><br>IHMO Mtn, Madness had no buisiness leading folks up avalanche central in Saturday's conditions. It is hard, sometimes, to question our leaders and experts. Their job, after all, is to lead, but is it yours to follow? <br><br>Question authority. Not to pick a fight, but to better understand the reasons behind the decision. Help them revisit the decision and prove, not justify, the action to your satisfaction.<br><br>Never delegate decisions to others with out understanding them. <br><br><br>I fear that this weekend's avalanche fatalities could be the sign of a disturbing trend. The recreational industry wants to sell as much gear as possible. It is more difficult to sell an activity that apears dangerous or fool-hardy. I fear that the industries reaction to the sad events of this weekend will be to sell more avalanche beacons, or as I call them "corpse finders." It is a simple thing to buy an avy beacon, play with it a little, and feel safe whereas what is really needed is the training to be able to identify avalanche zones and route-find around them. Unfortunaley, this type of avy training is not something I see the industry selling in a box at the local recreation store.<br><br>I call upon all of you to educate your fellow back-country users, be they skiers, snowmachiners, snowshoers, or others. Promote avy classes that emphasise route-finding and safe travel. Help other parties make informed decisions.

Well put.

David Spring has written extensively on these topics of avi awareness, route finding, beacons, and group dynamics:<br><br> What's Wrong with Traditional Avalanche Courses?

Jhamaker, am I safe in assuming you were a member of one of the Mountaineers ski groups on Saturday? If so, were you in the group which turned back at Mushroom Couloir, or in one of the two which kept going? In case it is not clear, I was in a group which elected to keep going. I knew only a few of those present, and sometimes I find these internet-based alternate identities confusing. <br><br>As I stated yesterday, my own first order of business involves MY decision-making process, not that of our guides. As far as I know, all those present were previously judged qualified to lead Mountaineers trips in avalanche terrain (someone will no doubt correct me if I'm wrong about this). As such, I assume that all were comfortable making decisions about levels of acceptable risk, continually updating these judgements on the basis of fresh information, and acting on the basis of their assessments. I felt, in fact, that my guide consistently asked this level of involvement from all members of my group. In other words, I did not feel "[led] up avalanche central," as if against my will or better judgement. Rather, I felt invited to make my own decisions in concert with a group of similarly skilled, similarly empowered individuals. This was, in my view, much the point of our day in the field: to learn more about guiding and group process under stress. As such, I found it very valuable, and I hope to continue to draw on what I learned that day. In other words, this discussion is a part of an ongoing process which may result in making decisions differently next time around. <br><br>Since you (and perhaps others) seem to have concluded differently, I'd be interested in hearing more about your perspective. I assume that other points of view will help expand and deepen my own.<br><br>I hope I am not offending anyone in suggesting that this is not the time or place to judge those directly involved in Saturday's fatal slide. When in doubt, we might all try to imagine the effects of our postings on the friends and families of those involved.<br><br>Thanks,<br><br>Mark Harfenist, a.k.a. markharf

Mark:<br><br>I would love to debrief w/ you. jhamaker@operamail.com, 206-550-7543

My orig post accomplished a lot of what I had hoped it would - getting people to think hard about decision making in general, and avy risk specificaly.

My post, was, of course based on very incomplete info. Remember this is all just arm-chair quarterbacking.

Here is part of my debrief
I, myself, canceled a tip up Hood and moved my trip to the vicinity of Steven's Pass last wk-end after skiing Fri at Boulion Basin, Crystal.

Sat, at Stevens Pass conditions were easily twice as bad as any telemetry or forcasting indicated. The central cascades must have been in an unusualy intense convergeance zone. Just parking the cars I realized we had snow acumulation of over 4" per hour! My brain went into a tizzy - how am I going to find a fun and safe destination for a group w/ snowboard, randonee, and bc gear? I had already eliminated plan A, plan B, and plan C as too hard to get to and too exposed to avalanches. In the end we settled w/ a trip w/ plowed parking, minimal exposure to avalanche, and no fee. We followed the slowshoers (lot of them) up to Lanham Lk. A stealth approach to Jim Hill, through the trees and avoiding avy chutes was discarded as simply too much work.

Sun we ended up skate skiing in Leavenworth.

The trip destinations were dissapointing at first. We hauled all this technical gear and ironmongory in the hopes of at least getting in a great ski run. Now, in hind sight, I am happy w/ our decisions and thankfull for the flexibility of my party. I hope I can be as objective as this next time when (avy) conditions are not as blatantly odvious.

&gt;&gt;&gt;Unfortunaley, this type of avy training is not something I see the industry selling in a box at the local recreation store.<br><br>Actually, the last outdoor equipment store I was in had a flyer for level I and level II avy courses right at the cash register (and when I took the level I course, there was a lot of discussion of route-finding, not letting beacons change the risks you'll take, etc). But of course, it's up to the recreationalist to decide this kind of education matters to herself. I haven't noticed any warning label tied to snowshoes or skis, but I have noticed course flyers and good books at outdoor stores. <br><br>For my part, I have sometimes asked folks in the BC what they're thinking on avalanche as a nice way of seeing if they're thinking at all, but you can only go so far in raising the awareness of strangers in this kind of situation (very easy to get folks on the defensive, which tends not to teach much). <br><br>It would certainly be nice if the Seattle Times would say something other than "their family said so-and-so was very experienced and knew the risks" and would instead risk upsetting the family by saying instead "the hazard was rated as thus-and-such on the daily report at http://etc etc" and an accident analysis by this expert said..." - I've been somewhat depressed by the way the local press misses the opportunity to educate the public on the hazards and how to learn more about them.