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Alpental 1/20-21
- Jerm
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19 years 3 weeks ago - 19 years 3 weeks ago #212764
by Jerm
Alpental 1/20-21 was created by Jerm
30th Bday powder skiing can never be bad and Saturday did not disappoint, even if the upper gates did not open. Mark and I lapped E-Gate over and over, sniffing out a foot of untracked in overlooked nooks and crannies,
A night of saki bombs led to a late start today, which was probably good ... the patrol-v-poacher wars escalated another notch today and I was left rolling my eyes at the state of Alpental affairs. As I understand it, one of the upper gates opened this morning with patrol checking BC passes. Since lots of people who regularly ski there did not have them (at least, not on their persons) there were some heated exchanges that left a few red coats pretty steamed. Subsequent poaching by the BC pass-less did not help the matter and the gates were closed with a "BC closed due to poaching -- see shack at top of chair 2" note on the boards. This was about the time we arrived, and since my BC pass departed my person alongside my season pass last week, I was on my way to replace it anyway. Unfortunately, a run on passes prompted by the sudden shift in enforcement patterns quickly depleted their supply of plastic, and no more passes were being issued for that day. No problem, according to one seemingly in-charge patroller atop chair two, you just need to get one next time. Bottom line, you can ski the BC now. So we went and got our gear, and I set out to show a visiting New Englander our goods, only to be turned back at High Gate by the very same patroller, now enforcing a "no tolerance policy". Talk about a mixed message.
No hard feelings, I know Alpy patrol is in a tough situation, but come on guys. If you are going to enforce BC passes, you need to provide an avenue for people to actually GET them. As a regular Alpental skier, I could just roll my eyes and sigh, but the taste left in my visiting friend's mouth was on the sour side. Pretty much every other resort in North America has an open boundary policy (or some variation thereof) these days. Why can't we have one too?
A night of saki bombs led to a late start today, which was probably good ... the patrol-v-poacher wars escalated another notch today and I was left rolling my eyes at the state of Alpental affairs. As I understand it, one of the upper gates opened this morning with patrol checking BC passes. Since lots of people who regularly ski there did not have them (at least, not on their persons) there were some heated exchanges that left a few red coats pretty steamed. Subsequent poaching by the BC pass-less did not help the matter and the gates were closed with a "BC closed due to poaching -- see shack at top of chair 2" note on the boards. This was about the time we arrived, and since my BC pass departed my person alongside my season pass last week, I was on my way to replace it anyway. Unfortunately, a run on passes prompted by the sudden shift in enforcement patterns quickly depleted their supply of plastic, and no more passes were being issued for that day. No problem, according to one seemingly in-charge patroller atop chair two, you just need to get one next time. Bottom line, you can ski the BC now. So we went and got our gear, and I set out to show a visiting New Englander our goods, only to be turned back at High Gate by the very same patroller, now enforcing a "no tolerance policy". Talk about a mixed message.
No hard feelings, I know Alpy patrol is in a tough situation, but come on guys. If you are going to enforce BC passes, you need to provide an avenue for people to actually GET them. As a regular Alpental skier, I could just roll my eyes and sigh, but the taste left in my visiting friend's mouth was on the sour side. Pretty much every other resort in North America has an open boundary policy (or some variation thereof) these days. Why can't we have one too?
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- Larry_Trotter
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19 years 3 weeks ago #212766
by Larry_Trotter
Replied by Larry_Trotter on topic Re: Alpental 1/20-21
Maybe it will all save a life.
What exactly is the purpose of the BC Pass?
What exactly is the purpose of the BC Pass?
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- alpentalcorey
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19 years 3 weeks ago #212767
by alpentalcorey
Replied by alpentalcorey on topic Re: Alpental 1/20-21
It's basically to sign another waiver form. If you don't know where you are going back there or are new to the area the Patrol will give you a tour, which I think is kind of nice.
My own BC pass delaminated and frayed away several years ago. I was under the impression that you didn't need to have it on you, just that you needed to have it and have signed the release. I could of course be wrong. I was not up that day (was resting a minor elbow injury).
My own BC pass delaminated and frayed away several years ago. I was under the impression that you didn't need to have it on you, just that you needed to have it and have signed the release. I could of course be wrong. I was not up that day (was resting a minor elbow injury).
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- Jerm
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19 years 3 weeks ago - 19 years 3 weeks ago #212769
by Jerm
Replied by Jerm on topic Re: Alpental 1/20-21
You need to have it on you. At least, you did on Sunday. I did not have it on me (blew out of one of those pass holder arm band things last week -- anchor yours if you have one!).
Yes, you are supposed to get a tour from patrol, but (so far) I haven't met anyone who has. When I got mine, I signed a long release, and listened to a short speech about the dangers and what to watch out for.
As a barrier to entry for the uninformed and generally obedient, it may theoretically save a life. I think, more likely, it will save Booth Creek some legal responsibility if/when someone gets hurt out there. ("there" being the area within the SUP beyond the ropeline). But, as I understand it, releases like this are easily overturned in court. I think it is meant more to be insurance that those entering this area have been made aware of the risks.
Here is an interesting question that I would like to toss to some TAY legal types . The Forest Service has mandated (although I can't find the actual text on the web) that ski areas on USFS land (which would include almost all of Alpental) may not block access to the surrounding public land. As I understand it, this means one can legally cross the SUP boundary from an open area within the SUP area. Edelweiss Bowl, as I read the maps in the EIS for the proposed expansion, fits this description. Does that mean that a skier can legally enter the BC from there? If so, you can traverse along the backside of Denny (outside the SUP) to reach Great Scott Bowl (also outside the SUP) and points farther afield without breaking any laws as long as you do not return to the ski area through a closed area. I'm sure there are some WA state laws that also apply to this, if anyone knows what they are, please chime in.
Yes, you are supposed to get a tour from patrol, but (so far) I haven't met anyone who has. When I got mine, I signed a long release, and listened to a short speech about the dangers and what to watch out for.
As a barrier to entry for the uninformed and generally obedient, it may theoretically save a life. I think, more likely, it will save Booth Creek some legal responsibility if/when someone gets hurt out there. ("there" being the area within the SUP beyond the ropeline). But, as I understand it, releases like this are easily overturned in court. I think it is meant more to be insurance that those entering this area have been made aware of the risks.
Here is an interesting question that I would like to toss to some TAY legal types . The Forest Service has mandated (although I can't find the actual text on the web) that ski areas on USFS land (which would include almost all of Alpental) may not block access to the surrounding public land. As I understand it, this means one can legally cross the SUP boundary from an open area within the SUP area. Edelweiss Bowl, as I read the maps in the EIS for the proposed expansion, fits this description. Does that mean that a skier can legally enter the BC from there? If so, you can traverse along the backside of Denny (outside the SUP) to reach Great Scott Bowl (also outside the SUP) and points farther afield without breaking any laws as long as you do not return to the ski area through a closed area. I'm sure there are some WA state laws that also apply to this, if anyone knows what they are, please chime in.
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- gravitymk
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19 years 3 weeks ago #212771
by gravitymk
Replied by gravitymk on topic Re: Alpental 1/20-21
As it happens we weren't there on Sunday opting for Gold Creek BC instead...
Originally you used to get the tour after you went through an orientation, and a form signing.
The whole point behind the pass it to educate anyone interested in leaving area boundaries of the associated risks and suggested methods of mitigating said risks. For instance on the back of the pass, it mentions:
Travel in small groups (preferably 3 or more)
Carry a beacon, probe and shovel (know how to use them)
Space out on the traverse
Report avalanche activity
The whole point is to elevate skier awareness. A good thing.
From all the phone calls and information we got on Sunday evening, including what I read here, the message that was sent is that we are covering our ass.
Case in point, we were told about an instance where skier "A" who has been skiing Alpental BC for years, has at least a level 1 avalanche certificate, was carrying all the gear (with an active, recently practiced knowledge of how to use), skiing with buddies was told he couldn't go because he didn't have his pass. In the mean time, they let a guy through who was carrying the plastic, however was traveling alone with nothing but the jacket on his back...
The message seems to be, carry this worthless piece of plastic which protects us from liability, who cares about the rest...
Personally, I don't think the idea of requiring the pass or enforcing it is bad. However the way it was handled was.
Originally you used to get the tour after you went through an orientation, and a form signing.
The whole point behind the pass it to educate anyone interested in leaving area boundaries of the associated risks and suggested methods of mitigating said risks. For instance on the back of the pass, it mentions:
Travel in small groups (preferably 3 or more)
Carry a beacon, probe and shovel (know how to use them)
Space out on the traverse
Report avalanche activity
The whole point is to elevate skier awareness. A good thing.
From all the phone calls and information we got on Sunday evening, including what I read here, the message that was sent is that we are covering our ass.
Case in point, we were told about an instance where skier "A" who has been skiing Alpental BC for years, has at least a level 1 avalanche certificate, was carrying all the gear (with an active, recently practiced knowledge of how to use), skiing with buddies was told he couldn't go because he didn't have his pass. In the mean time, they let a guy through who was carrying the plastic, however was traveling alone with nothing but the jacket on his back...
The message seems to be, carry this worthless piece of plastic which protects us from liability, who cares about the rest...
Personally, I don't think the idea of requiring the pass or enforcing it is bad. However the way it was handled was.
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- kuharicm
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19 years 3 weeks ago #212775
by kuharicm
Replied by kuharicm on topic Re: Alpental 1/20-21
I was there that Sunday. I am Avie Level II, skied the Alpental backcountry for the last four years, had my gear, and an experienced, geared up friend with me.
I didn't have my BC card since I haven't been checked for it ever (and it pretty quickly disintegrated)!
I didn't get through, but a guy with a card, traveling alone, with no gear, did. ???
I was a little jealous, but we had a good adventure sneaking out Edelweiss Pass and heading to Hemlock Pass and then back around and away from the hordes...
Although I do think it is a (albeit poorly executed) step in the right direction.
-Matt
I didn't have my BC card since I haven't been checked for it ever (and it pretty quickly disintegrated)!
I didn't get through, but a guy with a card, traveling alone, with no gear, did. ???
I was a little jealous, but we had a good adventure sneaking out Edelweiss Pass and heading to Hemlock Pass and then back around and away from the hordes...
Although I do think it is a (albeit poorly executed) step in the right direction.
-Matt
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