Nov 8, 2011, Unstable snow on Skyline Divide
11/8/11
WA Stevens Pass
6567
7
No photos but had a great day out on Skyline Divide. We could see jacoblmandell's tracks from Nov. 4-5.
Warning: It is early season but the danger is lurking. With ski pole test we couldn't "feel" any layers beside the wet crusty layer at the base but we ski cut a really big avalanche, probably a D2.5, R4. Aspect was 350 with slope angle right at 38 degrees. Dug a quick pit and at about 25 cm down there is a huge depth hoar layer that you can't feel with a ski pole. Shovel shear test broke STV w/ Q2. That was in the morning and with the cloud cover the pack was heating up during the day. Did a number of ski cuts to drop smaller slides. We were staying on ridges and lower angles. As the pack heated up we could start to move onto steeper angles since the snow cracks no longer propagated.
Just a warning to watch for that depth hoar layer. Hopefully in the next couple of days it will settle out.
Warning: It is early season but the danger is lurking. With ski pole test we couldn't "feel" any layers beside the wet crusty layer at the base but we ski cut a really big avalanche, probably a D2.5, R4. Aspect was 350 with slope angle right at 38 degrees. Dug a quick pit and at about 25 cm down there is a huge depth hoar layer that you can't feel with a ski pole. Shovel shear test broke STV w/ Q2. That was in the morning and with the cloud cover the pack was heating up during the day. Did a number of ski cuts to drop smaller slides. We were staying on ridges and lower angles. As the pack heated up we could start to move onto steeper angles since the snow cracks no longer propagated.
Just a warning to watch for that depth hoar layer. Hopefully in the next couple of days it will settle out.
Thanks for the warning, Chuck.
You just have techno language to describe conditions. Where are your pictures for the visual learners?
You just have techno language to describe conditions. Where are your pictures for the visual learners?
author=old guy link=topic=22220.msg94998#msg94998 date=1320859040]
No photos but had a great day out on Skyline Divide. We could see jacoblmandell's tracks from Nov. 4-5.
Warning: It is early season but the danger is lurking. With ski pole test we couldn't "feel" any layers beside the wet crusty layer at the base but we ski cut a really big avalanche, probably a D2.5, R4. Aspect was 350 with slope angle right at 38 degrees. Dug a quick pit and at about 25 cm down there is a huge depth hoar layer that you can't feel with a ski pole. Shovel shear test broke STV w/ Q2. That was in the morning and with the cloud cover the pack was heating up during the day. Did a number of ski cuts to drop smaller slides. We were staying on ridges and lower angles. As the pack heated up we could start to move onto steeper angles since the snow cracks no longer propagated.
Just a warning to watch for that depth hoar layer. Hopefully in the next couple of days it will settle out.
Thanks so much! great report and really helpful. I appreciate this dialog as much as the ski porn photos!
Got carried away with links; hope they're useful to someone.
A question for old guy - when you write "depth hoar" above, do you mean depth hoar (faceted/sugary snow) or buried surface hoar (big planar feathers)? The Nov 4-5 party's video (look at ~1:20 ) showed surface hoar. The Nov 6 Ptarmigan TR has it too. The Nov 7-8 storm might've buried it 25cm deep with windloading? Both are possible (though this TR describes the base as "wet and crusty"), but they have different implications for the future.... Thanks!
Thanks for the report, it needn't have photos to be useful (if TAY isn't welcoming, there's the NWAC Snowpack Info Exchange )
author=old guy link=topic=22220.msg94998#msg94998 date=1320859040">
No photos but had a great day out on Skyline Divide. We could see jacoblmandell's tracks from Nov. 4-5.
Warning: It is early season but the danger is lurking. With ski pole test we couldn't "feel" any layers beside the wet crusty layer at the base but we ski cut a really big avalanche, probably a D2.5, R4. Aspect was 350 with slope angle (see fig. 4) right at 38 degrees. Dug a quick pit and at about 25 cm down there is a huge depth hoar layer that you can't feel with a ski pole. Shovel shear test broke STV w/ Q2. That was in the morning and with the cloud cover the pack was heating up during the day. Did a number of ski cuts to drop smaller slides. We were staying on ridges and lower angles. As the pack heated up we could start to move onto steeper angles since the snow cracks no longer propagated.
Just a warning to watch for that depth hoar layer. Hopefully in the next couple of days it will settle out.
A question for old guy - when you write "depth hoar" above, do you mean depth hoar (faceted/sugary snow) or buried surface hoar (big planar feathers)? The Nov 4-5 party's video (look at ~1:20 ) showed surface hoar. The Nov 6 Ptarmigan TR has it too. The Nov 7-8 storm might've buried it 25cm deep with windloading? Both are possible (though this TR describes the base as "wet and crusty"), but they have different implications for the future.... Thanks!
Thanks for the report, it needn't have photos to be useful (if TAY isn't welcoming, there's the NWAC Snowpack Info Exchange )
Remind me where Skyline Divide is.
author=jhamaker link=topic=22220.msg95099#msg95099 date=1321026286]
Remind me where Skyline Divide is.
north of Mt Baker, east side of Glacier Creek drainage
Sorry to take so long to get back to Charlie's question but I have been out skiing.
You are correct in that it was buried surface hoar.
Yesterday I was up on the north side of Goat and that layer has settled out - warm temperatures has really stabilized the snowpack in that area. Looks like the new storm should be coming in right side up!
Ski safe.
You are correct in that it was buried surface hoar.
Yesterday I was up on the north side of Goat and that layer has settled out - warm temperatures has really stabilized the snowpack in that area. Looks like the new storm should be coming in right side up!
Ski safe.
Good observation old guy.
There was about a foot of snow above 5500' to 6000' on north through east aspects that remained on the ground for a good while in cold conditions with plenty of clear skies before recent storms buried that (those) layers. I haven't skied yet or dug a pit but I noted that layer while hiking in late October and early November generally on those aspects at higher elevations. Weak layers don't really go away except when rain penetrates and eradicates them. Watch for the snow level with forecasts and the use of telemetry interpolations to see at what elevations this (these) weak layers are likely to persist.
There was about a foot of snow above 5500' to 6000' on north through east aspects that remained on the ground for a good while in cold conditions with plenty of clear skies before recent storms buried that (those) layers. I haven't skied yet or dug a pit but I noted that layer while hiking in late October and early November generally on those aspects at higher elevations. Weak layers don't really go away except when rain penetrates and eradicates them. Watch for the snow level with forecasts and the use of telemetry interpolations to see at what elevations this (these) weak layers are likely to persist.
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