April 1 Newton Creek Mt. Hood
4/14/12
OR Mt Hood
6281
15
Wow what a day! We headed up assuming everything would be wind effected considering the telemetry from the night before but you never truly know until you go. We started late to allow the winds to abate and topped out into the alpine at 6k in manageable winds, temps in the mid 20's, and huge but stable wind cornices. We found deep consolidated cold snow, no propagation, cracking, or slabbing and minimal sloughing. Two great shin deep runs into the bowl and a few amazing old growth descents then climbed back up to alpine and exited down the Clark West wall into Heather.
The resort had not opened Heather so we were alone. Near the Heather chair we came across a person sitting on a snow bank in a red coat, black pants, hood up, snowboard boots but no ski gear. As I glided up I was calling out asking if they were okay... no answer... they didn't even move a glove. I thought oh-sh*t this person is either in shock or frozen stiff... When I got within arms reach I realized it was a manikin in Meadows employee coat. I've never seen that before. My guess is they parked the dummy beside the trail to deter uphill traffic from going any further up Heather. Scared the hell out of me!
Looks nice in there. That's pretty funny about the "skicrow". Who said ski patrollers aren't creative?
I wander what the Meadows policy is on skiing into the closed area from above? I know they are sticklers about climbing into the closed area from the bottom. I have to assume that the policy is the same if coming in from the top or the bottom.
author=OldHouseMan link=topic=24356.msg102935#msg102935 date=1333397574]
I wander what the Meadows policy is on skiing into the closed area from above? I know they are sticklers about climbing into the closed area from the bottom. I have to assume that the policy is the same if coming in from the top or the bottom.
While the link only addresses going out, I believe they will pull your season pass (if you have one) if you enter from OB - "closed boundary policy". they don't want to be loose a slide on skiers returning from OB.
http://www.skihood.com/The-Mountain/Safety/Know-Your-Boundaries
maybe there's a Mt Hood patroller on here who can comment further...
edgesport, looks like you hit it right!
author=OldHouseMan link=topic=24356.msg102935#msg102935 date=1333397574">
I wander what the Meadows policy is on skiing into the closed area from above?
I have heard rumors that they will have you arrested if entering any closed area due to avalanche work in progress. You can't validate that on their website (which is a shame) but they do post when avalanche work is in progress where they clearly state to "stay out of the permit area"... one can assume this means re-entry up or down.
We descended the canyon just before you guys. Yes, the cornices were BIG. After some slope evaluation (CT4Q3 15cm, and CT24Q2 75cm) we decided it was good to go...however on the skin up I noticed settlement and cracking, so we decided to head back on Pea Gravel ridge(south facing), where we then set off a shallow slab, 50 feet wide and 6-8 inches deep, on a roller ski cut . Not too bad, but it ran. It was surely "Considerable" out there.
Also, we spoke with the MHM Patrollers at the "Test Dummy" site on the walk in, and they were very helpful in sharing information about control work that was done earlier in the day. I have been lectured by MHM patrol in the past for going up the canyon during control work, and while we have every right to be there(according to the USFS), Hood River County has other ideas...also, MHM has a Howitzer cannon, and I hear it's not very accurate!
Also, we spoke with the MHM Patrollers at the "Test Dummy" site on the walk in, and they were very helpful in sharing information about control work that was done earlier in the day. I have been lectured by MHM patrol in the past for going up the canyon during control work, and while we have every right to be there(according to the USFS), Hood River County has other ideas...also, MHM has a Howitzer cannon, and I hear it's not very accurate!
a buddy of mine was forced by MHM to take an avy class after poaching gods wall on a closed day.
author=Split007 link=topic=24356.msg102966#msg102966 date=1333424376]
Also, we spoke with the MHM Patrollers at the "Test Dummy" site on the walk in, and they were very helpful in sharing information about control work that was done earlier in the day. I have been lectured by MHM patrol in the past for going up the canyon during control work, and while we have every right to be there(according to the USFS), Hood River County has other ideas...also, MHM has a Howitzer cannon, and I hear it's not very accurate!
Wait... you skinned up Heather cat track to the Skicrow? (that's a keeper DG) That is a long way past the "Closed to uphill traffic" sign lower on the cat track. LOL I find it hard to deny myself the West wall on good days. I know it is technically not allowed but there is a perfect run from top to bottom that starts right near.... well another time perhaps, but the exit is definitely within reach of big slides from Wy'East like the one last year (link below). Even with all the snow this year we could see the 3 foot diameter broken splintered tree trunks. I really hope that thing releases soon because White River, Clark, and Newton are all in danger with the load Wy'East is carrying this year!
http://www.skihood.com/Community-and-News/Meadows-Blog/Posts/2010/01/Anatomy-of-an-Avalanche
At the Heather canyon chairlift there is another small sign that specifies "no uphill traffic beyond this point". The MHM Patrollers we met mentioned that this is where we should head up the ridge toward Newton canyon.
Once again, if MHM is not doing control work, then BC travelers have every right to continue up Clark Canyon. You will not be arrested or forced to take avy classes (although you really should take a class).
Once again, if MHM is not doing control work, then BC travelers have every right to continue up Clark Canyon. You will not be arrested or forced to take avy classes (although you really should take a class).
author=Split007 link=topic=24356.msg102980#msg102980 date=1333470136]
Once again, if MHM is not doing control work, then BC travelers have every right to continue up Clark Canyon.
its was my understanding that you are not allowed entry if the area is mearly closed to resort skiers, not just control work, uphill or down. This is where Meadows could do a better job clarifying.
What makes this deceiving is sometimes they open only the lower Heather canyon to resort skiers, but leave upper Heather closed... and then they can close it all again at any time during the day. So what was earlier a legal descent of the West wall, might be illegal later in the day. Even more so if they closed it for more control work above.
My wife and I were up there on Sunday as well. We skied up to the huge cornices at the start of the bowl, but it was feeling really wind affected and we assumed the bowl would be slabby. We skied a run a bit down the ridge from the bowl and found the fresh 6 to 12 inches were quite reactive soft slabs. Any roll over in the terrain was easily ski triggered. We measured the bed surface of one start zone at 40 degrees. These soft slabs quickly fell apart and did not go very far, but we decided it was enough activity to send us home after one lap.
We skied the west face into Heather as well and were quite surprised by the skicrow. I am not sure what the goal of hauling a mannequin with ski boots and a patrol jacket up the mountain would be. I also agree that Meadows could really help themselves by being more clear about their backcountry policies. The sign sure does not make you feel very welcome to be on Forest Service land after paying to park in the public SnoPark. Although every patroller I have met in the canyon has been super nice and helpful with information from their control work.
We skied the west face into Heather as well and were quite surprised by the skicrow. I am not sure what the goal of hauling a mannequin with ski boots and a patrol jacket up the mountain would be. I also agree that Meadows could really help themselves by being more clear about their backcountry policies. The sign sure does not make you feel very welcome to be on Forest Service land after paying to park in the public SnoPark. Although every patroller I have met in the canyon has been super nice and helpful with information from their control work.
The MHM Corporation merely holds the permits to operate a business on public land. It is not private land, therefore you have the right as a taxpayer to be there, and my conversations several years ago with the Forest Service confirmed this. If you'd like to find out the specifics, contact the Hood River Ranger station, and ask for the officer that handles the permits for MHM.
However, I believe that cooperation with the MHM Patrol is essential for everyone's safety, and that BC travelers should extend every courtesy. The patrollers are knowledgable, have valuable information to share, and could someday help to save your A--.
However, I believe that cooperation with the MHM Patrol is essential for everyone's safety, and that BC travelers should extend every courtesy. The patrollers are knowledgable, have valuable information to share, and could someday help to save your A--.
author=MJS link=topic=24356.msg102992#msg102992 date=1333482158]
I am not sure what the goal of hauling a mannequin with ski boots and a patrol jacket up the mountain would be.
It's probably just an extra measure to try to deter people from heading up the canyon on days when the avy danger is high. It's at least cheaper than paying a patroller to stand there all day, although I guess it depends on how convincing it looks...
Go to the first sign if it says open proceed, if not go through potato patch. If its open continue on to the next sign and hit the ridge from there. Why would anyone want to go up through there when they are doing control work?
Guessing the "skicrow" was more about the concern of wy'east going big this past weekend. I really do not think you have every right to be there, especially in a closed inbounds/sidecountry area. Don't you become meadow's responsibility once inside their zone and could potentially put others in danger if you get into a sticky situation?
Guessing the "skicrow" was more about the concern of wy'east going big this past weekend. I really do not think you have every right to be there, especially in a closed inbounds/sidecountry area. Don't you become meadow's responsibility once inside their zone and could potentially put others in danger if you get into a sticky situation?
Just to stir the pot a little, I too think MHM management assumes too much ownership of the public land on which it's licensed to operate the ski area. It's public land, plain and simple. Read these two documents regarding the rules under which they operate:
http://tinyurl.com/86ux293
http://tinyurl.com/7qsdwe2
They are bound to these rules. Unfortunately the Hood River County sheriff and an officer of the Forest Service seems to side closer to MHM than other users. At least that was the way it was several years ago when they started the KEEP OUT policy. The docs leave a lot open to legal interpretation. And I'm sure the MHM lawyers are taking as favorable interpretation as possible to cover their asses in the event a climber is caught in an avalanche due to their avy reduction operations (or worse, takes a hit from the Howitzer).
As I see it, the agreement is only as good as the enforcement. MHM needs to take a friendlier position and welcome the BC community. They're better than they were several years ago but they have a long ways to go.
http://tinyurl.com/86ux293
http://tinyurl.com/7qsdwe2
They are bound to these rules. Unfortunately the Hood River County sheriff and an officer of the Forest Service seems to side closer to MHM than other users. At least that was the way it was several years ago when they started the KEEP OUT policy. The docs leave a lot open to legal interpretation. And I'm sure the MHM lawyers are taking as favorable interpretation as possible to cover their asses in the event a climber is caught in an avalanche due to their avy reduction operations (or worse, takes a hit from the Howitzer).
As I see it, the agreement is only as good as the enforcement. MHM needs to take a friendlier position and welcome the BC community. They're better than they were several years ago but they have a long ways to go.
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