Mt. Rainier heavy-handed policing

Amar, I'm pretty sure I didn't miss that point. MY point (made in portions of my text that you chose not to quote) is that MRNP is taking a backwards and revenue-deletirous approach by corraling people at the exit and lecturing them.

If they issue tickets in the parking lot--at whatever time they see fit--that would have two effects: It would push people OUT of the park at a specific time (something they say they want); AND it would increase revenue (from parking tickets). This would pay for extra LEOs or extra whatevers.

While it's true that a Federal property doesn't answer to state or local governments, they do answer to their own user base. Obviously, the NPS is somewhat more intransigent than, say, the NFS, but focused user input can and will have an effect. The problem I see on this forum is that there is little agreement on anything having to do with MRNP, apart from some futile fist-shaking.

Is community fundraising for increased access like www.accesstheridge.org/ a relevant option here? I don't think I've ever seen it mentioned. It seems silly given that it's a primary use area for a very large region, but I don't see any other improvements happening.

Great to see that the current Interior Secretary is providing such fine oversight...

Due to budget issues (which may be partially their own fault based on priorities), they want to have only a single 8-hour 9am-5pm LE ranger shift assigned to cover that Longmire-Paradise area during the winter season (roughly November to April). Thus the 5pm closure time.

So what you're saying is that there is NO law enforcement in the park from 5pm to 9am? As far as I know they don't close a gate at the Nisqually entrance so that leaves the stretch between the entrance and Longmire accessible 24 hours a day....?

So what you're saying is that there is NO law enforcement in the park from 5pm to 9am? As far as I know they don't close a gate at the Nisqually entrance so that leaves the stretch between the entrance and Longmire accessible 24 hours a day....?

There's definitely no LE assigned to cover the stretch from Longmire-Paradise at night during this time of year, which is why it's gated closed. To cover the stretch from the entrance to Longmire, which must be kept open to the public 24/7 year-round due to hotel guests staying at Longmire National Park Inn (except rare storm closures), there clearly must be an LE on-call at all times, housed in park staff housing at either Longmire or at park headquarters in Tahoma Woods (a small parcel of NPS-purchased land located on SR 706 about 10 miles west of the Nisqually entrance, past even the town of Ashford, to which the park headquarters and some staff housing were moved from Longmire several decades ago).

In years past, however, they used to allow the road to be open all the way to Paradise with no LEs on duty anywhere in the park. How do I know this? On November 1, 2011, I put my car into the ditch for the first time ever in my life, driving downhill from Paradise, I hit a long stretch of black ice on the steepest part of the entire road at 4300 ft just between the two turnoffs for the Ricksecker Point viewpoint loop road. Despite being at only 20-25 mph in a 35 zone and in 4WD, I skidded into the right side ditch ending up with 3 tires off the road surface in the ditch and 1 in the air above the asphalt (sadly there was no snowbank yet to keep me out of the ditch). It turned out that the road surface was so slick with black ice that Microspikes were almost required to even walk on it safely.

With no cell service at all in that area and sunset approaching, I eventually flagged down the first passing car and got a ride to the Longmire Inn, where I called Park Dispatch and was informed that the nearest LE would have to drive up from park headquarters in Tahoma Woods (16 miles from Longmire). He eventually arrived almost half an hour later, recognized me immediately (we had once skied down from Muir together a couple of years earlier!), and we drove up the 7 miles to my car, but he was unable to pull me out with a tow strap since his park ranger SUV had no traction on the black ice either. He radioed for Eatonville Towing, which eventually came another hour-and-half later, and even the tow truck driver had to drive the front wheels of his tow truck off the road into the opposite side ditch, since he couldn't get enough traction on the slick ice-covered pavement to pull me out otherwise. An over $380 towing bill for the 5-minute winch out plus their 2-3 hours roundtrip driving time, which fortunately cost me nothing since I have AAA Plus which reimbursed it fully.

Anyway, that kind of scenario can no longer happen since the tragic shooting of January 1, 2012. The board of inquiry convened afterwards to investigate the incident recommended/required increased LE staffing, so the park will no longer leave the road open to Paradise without "adequate" LE staffing on-duty. Apparently, at least 2 LEs on-duty now appears to be the current minimum based on my own observations, versus 0 which was clearly OK at times during off-season low-visitation periods in previous years.

The lack of LE staffing is the reason that other roads in the park (White River Road, Sunrise Road, Mowich Lake Road) remain closed to the public for weeks after they are plowed in the spring. They can not be open to the public without "adequate" LE staffing assigned to cover that area or be on call for it. Again, that lack of staffing may be partially the park's own doing and fault based on priorities for where the budget is spent.

By the way, all of this info about LE staffing, etc., is based on various random conversations with park rangers that I know, including LEs. It is not official nor necessarily accurate in any way.

In years past, however, they used to allow the road to be open all the way to Paradise with no LEs on duty anywhere in the park.

Anyway, that kind of scenario can no longer happen since the tragic shooting of January 1, 2012. The board of inquiry convened afterwards to investigate the incident recommended/required increased LE staffing, so the park will no longer leave the road open to Paradise without "adequate" LE staffing on-duty. Apparently, at least 2 LEs on-duty now appears to be the current minimum based on my own observations, versus 0 which was clearly OK at times during off-season low-visitation periods in previous years.

I'm going to attempt to tap dance around this and say that I think it's an awful decision to curtail access and spend millions and millions of dollars to create the impression that this event won't ever happen again. Making changes this radical over an event that, while horrifically tragic, has occurred once in 110+ years of park history is, I believe wrong.

They can not be open to the public without "adequate" LE staffing assigned to cover that area or be on call for it. Again, that lack of staffing may be partially the park's own doing and fault based on priorities for where the budget is spent.

I most certainly got another earful of the usual (paraphrasing) "Our budget dollars are siloed: We can't spend our entire budget in any way we like." She specifically mentioned that concession revenue cannot be used to pay staff and that something like the Muir webcam (which I despise) may have been paid for by money that could only be spent on that specific thing. The former issue is, I think, particularly problematic relative to the climbing program, where the guide services account for about half of the climbing attempts, but the massive amount of money they pay the park every year can't be used to pay the ranger staff required to support them. Instead, that money has to come from climbing fees. The bottom line on this whole "siloed budget" issue is that it has always seemed a bit to conveniently setup for them to be victims of it "We HAD to put that webcam at Muir or we'd have lost that money", and I've also seen them bend the rule when it suits their purposes.

Lastly, if you got hassled at the gate and have not called in to report it, you are (bluntly) part of the problem. It's very easy for them to write me off as an outlying crank if I'm the only one who regularly feeds back to them.