MRNP: update on plow operators

Randy King brought this issue up at the public meeting in Enumclaw. I suggested he get in contact with some of the people who have been lost and survived to get a first person narrative of how quickly conditions can change around Paradise. These narratives could be on a hand out about Paradise condiitons. I don't think a map would do much for casual snowshoer who is determined to wonder off into poor conditions.

Dan is an LEO that works the backcountry a lot, and is an important part of the park's rescue response. He's also a nice guy.

I agree that a better free map of the Paradise environs in winter would be a very good idea. Informative decision making tools are good for people from all walks of life and skill levels. Unfortunately my skill set will not help this effort.

Spending a few minutes in 50' viz fog bank yesterday trying to figure out where the hell I had just skied to reminded me of how disorienting a winter landscape can become when it socks in bad. My map was vague about the area, and I ended up resorting to satellite imagery and terrain features to find the best way down out of the fog. The point here is that better tools = better decisions.

Dan works closely with the WSTC Nordic Patrol folks -- my experience with him have been positive.

An improved map could be helpful -- the current map was drawn a long time ago I'm not exactly sure when, but certainly many backcountry travelers are venturing farther than when the map was developed.

Even with the map and the marked trails (which are set and maintained by the WSTC Nordic Patrol) it is impressive the extent that folks get confused and disoriented -- one example I recall encountering a couple heading east on the road past Reflection lakes and asking me how far it was back to Narada Falls that way -- and this was on a partly sunny day.

While it is certainly true that no amount of maps and trail marking will prevent 100% of people of gettting "dazed and confused" -- an improved map may help more folks and hopefully reduce how many people get lost.

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While it is certainly true that no amount of maps and trail marking will prevent 100% of people of gettting "dazed and confused" -- an improved map may help more folks and hopefully reduce how many people get lost. 

Yes. I have met many well-intentioned, nice, polite, and happy people having a good time but becoming very confused and turned around with the existing map.

We would also use the new map to provide (1) preferred travel routes; (2) travel tips in avalanche terrain; (3) being prepared for winter conditions (10 essentials etc); (4) crux points in the travelways; (5) key topographic features, and (6) resources for future travel--Mt. Rainier Rec forecast, NWAC telemetry for Paradise, NW Mountain Weather forecast; Mountaineer books & classes; for example and keep the info short + use illustrations where possible.

Maybe I'm off base here, but I really have mixed feelings about this. While I never want to hear about lost or missing persons and appreciate the increased safety such a product would provide, I also feel this may invite more ill prepared people to access terrain beyond their ability level. "Of course it's safe honey, just look at this map. It's all really obvious." Any merit to this line of thinking?

Maybe I'm off base here, but I really have mixed feelings about this. While I never want to hear about lost or missing persons and appreciate the increased safety such a product would provide,  I also feel this may invite more ill prepared people to access terrain beyond their ability level.  "Of course it's safe honey, just look at this map.  It's all really obvious."  Any merit to this line of thinking?

I don't think so -- people that show up unprepared tend to head out anyway and then have no clue where they are and how to head back.  Based on what I've seen voluteering at the park over the last decade the existing maps and marked trails have reduced the % of folks that get lost.  An improved map, would be an incremental improvement. 

A GPS enabled iPhone navigation app that showed safe travel routes around Paradise and current location might reduce the number of lost folks even more -- at least until the phone runs out of battery. But it might be tricky to set things up so people could install it on their phones while standing in the JVC -- I know there isn't any cell signal there and I don't think the JVC has WiFi.