Public meeting on Winter Operations, Mt. Rainier

I would like to get some input from other park users (like bc skiers) on my points. 

Your points are all well-taken; I hope you get a chance to ask all those good questions.  Maybe leave them a written list in case time runs short.

I doubt if this one would get a straight answer, but given the recent Hurricane Ridge experience, I'd ask if these weekday closure decisions even originated at the park level.  I'm thinking this is coming down from from the Byzantine Regional Office bureaucracy.

Some reflections for you see below in bold.

OK, TAYer's. I plan to attend the meeting in Enumclaw on December 12th. Thanks Andrew Carey for posting the info.

While I would definitely like to see Paradise open 7 days a week; I could be convinced to accept a 5 day schedule, if the some other questions get answered. I have assembled some talking points I will use at the Dec 12th meeting; which are posted below. While I don't claim to represent TAY or anyone else; I would like to get some input from other park users (like bc skiers) on my points. Please don't go into an anti-gov't/conspirious theory rant. Flame suit fully zipped, have at it.

Talking Points:

• While I certainly understand and sympathize with the MRNP’s budget predicaments,
We have yet to be told of a budget predicament by MRNP; they have had a HUGE capital improvement budget; they may be preparing for an 8% or greater cut under the fiscal cliff, but they have not said so.

I also understand MRNP has, as do all public agencies, a mission to provide public benefit. Sometimes providing public benefit, may not be the most economic model.
The only mission MRNP has is to provide a public benefit; "most economic model" is one that maximizes public  benefit per tax dollar, entry fee, and other fees.  It is noteworthy that the Forest Service was prohibited by law from considering economics [nevertheless, for most of its history, it returned a profit to the treasury.

Take public transportation, if we ran buses on a private enterprise model; we would run a few high use commuter routes in the morning and evening; leaving many of the public without transportation at other times.

Quite intentionally, the NPS was formed to provide a public benefit without regard to profit-making; the purpose is the physical, emotional, and spiritual benefits of being in sublime environments.  lThere is nothing wrong with this; our country has now been brainwashed to believe in profit-making as the highest call for mankind.

As it stands now, most public bus systems run many routes which do not make money most of the and are subsidized by the high uses times/routes. Such is the nature of operating public facilities/amenities.

• At this time, I have not made up my mind as to whether to support or oppose the new hours of operation at MRNP. Maybe you could answer the following questions to help myself and the public make an informed decision on this issue.

• My first question is specifically how will this two day road closure save MRNP money? Will no road plowing/maintenance be performed on the closed days? Will additional time and or resources be needed to open the road on the day after the two day closure? How will this impact road opening times on Thursdays?

As I initially posted, and then later posted with pictures, the Park has to plow following every major snowfall or they could lose access to critical facilities.  The saving comes in in not having to plow with minor snowfall and, especially, in having only a couple of LEOs on duty--they have to have a couple, because they are open to Longmire.  If they didn't plow after major snowfall, it is unlikely they could open the next day.

• What other cost reduction measures has the Park taken, besides reducing road access, in this current budget cycle.

This would be interesting and informative to know.

• If Tuesday and Wednesday are the lowest visited days, why is the Park continuing to offer other Ranger services and programs at Longmire; as detailed in the press release concerning the two day road closure? Why not essentially close services, not the entire park though, and drastically reduce staff on those two days?

IMHO, Tues & Wed are not necessarily the lowest visited days, but merely the days following the highest visitation.  They are continuing some limited services at Longmire (I'm not sure how many Ranger programs, if any; but the Concessionaire has a  hotel at Longmire; and closing the Park entirely could be against the law, or require all sots of special administrative procedures.

• It seems to me that road to Paradise is plowed to a far higher standard than any other high elevation road in Washington, why is this? Traveling to Stevens Pass, Snoqualmie, or Crystal; one can easily expect to encounter snow or ice covered road surface, yet the Paradise road is closed for hours while crews clean it to bare surface? Why does the road to Paradise need to be kept closed until sometimes 11AM so that the road can be plowed and groomed to bare asphalt?

Your are correct in reference to the standards, IMHO.  You should see the conditions the public drives on on the adjacent MTTA ski trails system with roads plowed by Sno-park Permit dollars--quite challenging to say the least.  Federal agencies are very safety conscious.  They are self-insured; in other words, some worker is injured, that comes out of the MRNP budget; workman's comp too; rehabilitation too; they (and me too) would not allow situations in which high-speed plowing operations encounter the typical "I-want-my-half-in-the-middle-driver" that I so often encounter in MRNP.  Our state governments have very low standards for drivers' licenses.  I believe that these closures are in response to the deaths last year, the committees on safety that followed, and recommendations about certain minimum (which to many might consider to  be excessive or that could be served in other ways) staffing levels in case of vehicle accidents, but especially lost, ill-prepared, recreationists who ignore weather and avalanche predictions and even come terribly ill-prepared for winter conditions.

• I can understand that due to occasional heavy snowfall, the road will open late or not at all.
Me too, and I have little problems with closure associated with NWAC high-severe avalanche conditions and Winter storm warnings with high winds and heavy snowfalls.
However from personal experience, and I know many others as well, who hesitate to visit Paradise due to the unpredictable road opening times.
I have lost most of my past ski partners to the unpredictability of opening times.

After getting up at 0’ dark-thirty and being on the road for several hours, who wants to just to sit at the gate for who knows how long? Will the two day closure save enough money to allow crews to open the at a fairly consistent time (baring exceptional weather/snow/etc…) in the future?

I believe the 2-day closure combined with legitimate closures for weather and avalanches will so affect visitation that only weekends, if we are lucky, will remain open.

• I can understand the decision to close the Carbon River road. However it seems to me that MRNP is slowly closing and restricting access. Sunrise road could be kept open far later in the year than it is now, and opened far earlier, in many years. The Westside Road for example. Mowich Road has remained closed in July when there were two small snow patches on the entire road. Rangers stationed in the backcountry of Crystal Mountain at the Park boundary, what’s the agenda there? Further access restrictions? If Tuesday and Wednesday are the least visited days now, what will the least visited days be on the other five days? If it quacks it’s a duck. Is this the first salvo in going to say, two day access? What assurances can you give us that the road will remain accessible for the remaining five days; regardless of visits or use?

• Paradise is a very unique area, there are not many alternatives that provide a similar experience, except for Mt. Baker area, which for many is too far for a day trip. If the winter weather here was stellar every day of the week, one could visit Paradise any day. However as we all know, Washington mountain weather is a bit different every day. Sometimes a Tuesday or Wednesday may be the only days where conditions, both weather and avalanche conditions, are conducive to visiting or commencing a summit attempt from Paradise. Also, there are some folks who’s only day off are Tuesday s or Wednesdays. I would urge the Park to consider these factors in restricting road access; although unfortunately I think that decision has been made. The public input session here, while appreciated, is a little late in the game. Why did the Park not take public input on this before making the decision?
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Thanks in advance for going to the meeting and for expressing your views and, in general, the views of winter bc skiers in MRNP; I'll go to the Ashford meeting. I just wish they had the common, and I think legally required, courtesy to ask for input BEFORE making and publicizing their decisons.

Your points are all well-taken; I hope you get a chance to ask all those good questions.  Maybe leave them a written list in case time runs short.

I doubt if this one would get a straight answer, but given the recent Hurricane Ridge experience, I'd ask if these weekday closure decisions even originated at the park level.  I'm thinking this is coming down from from the Byzantine Regional Office bureaucracy.

Good point, I will ask where this "closure" idea originated.

Reminder bump

I'll be driving up to Ashford for the meeting today at 400pm
Leaving my house in Sumner around 230ish. share ride ? I could haul 3 or 4 depending on which car I take. .convenient parking at Sumner Pierce county library. Pm me or call
253 Two four one -827six

Wish I could go - don't go easy on 'em, gentlemen! Thanks for representing the rest of us.