Waterhole Cabin- destroyed by ONP

I started another thread about the same topic, but are there any groups like that in WA already?

Well I've lobbied for a skier orientated group for years on this site but we're a pretty apathetic group.
I have been referred to the Winter Wildand Alliance but I don't like that group as their focus is for man-powered snow recreation only and in some cases IMHO that actually hinder access issues because of their opposition to motorized users.
It's my personal belief that any lobby group must support both mechanized and non-mechanized skiers and that includes resort issues. We're all skiers and inclusion is important while at the same time helping to sort out some of the dual use issues between the groups. Access issues are the key. Access is being systematically destroyed, sometimes on purpose and sometimes accidentally on purpose by not repairing roads and bridges and or removing huts.


You're a young man......instead of being just a famousinternetskier you should start a non-profit and be a famousinternetadvocateforskiers.....seriously.

Well I've lobbied for a skier orientated group for years on this site but we're a pretty apathetic group.
I have been referred to the Winter Wildand Alliance but I don't like that group as their focus is for man-powered snow recreation only and in some cases IMHO that actually hinder access issues because of their opposition to motorized users.
It's my personal belief that any lobby group must support both mechanized and non-mechanized skiers and that includes resort issues. We're all skiers and inclusion is important while at the same time helping to sort out some of the dual use issues between the groups.  Access issues are the key. Access is being systematically destroyed, sometimes on purpose and sometimes accidentally on purpose by not repairing roads and bridges and or removing huts.

agreed, does anyone have an "in" with Ski Washington? It'd be interesting to hear their take on BC skiing before starting to re-invent the wheel. ...maybe i'll shoot them an email tonight...

We cruised Yosemite today, car tourist and a couple short walk abouts, the number of sketchy mouse hotels in just the Valley is absurd, old metal trailers, lots of "vintage" 70s era stick built structure used as employee housing, seasonal dwellings etc. With over 4 MILLION visitors last season I'm surprised more guests weren't infected. I'd expected to haul the bikes in and be able to do some fireroading, NPS "policy" permits bikes on 12 miles of designated walker/stroller/bike paths. Little ding ding bell couldn't clear a path so it's the airhorn tomorrow. Remind me again who's park it is ? Spotted this Jeep in the parking lot. I feel so inadequate. Maybe it's low t. Notice the double hi cargo rack PLUS the bikes, motorhome towbar and at least 2 GPS dohickies on the dask

No all cabins shouldn't be torn down due to Hantavirus.... they need to be tested if they are not maintained  and full of rodent poop and those that do either cleaned( if that's possible) or torn down.  I'm just giving you an alternate reason to think about.The latest Hantavirus scare in YNP is a pretty serious situation.....somebody is going to get sued....big time! 8 cases, 3 deaths! If cabin is suspected to be infected, you don't get the option to take the risk..NPS would not allow you to have an option to contract a deadly disease... that is not logical.

Not sure NPS does anything on a whim...seems to have been their  plan for a long time,. Stop charging and taking reservations, remove from map, remove stove, take out before its noticed. You are suggesting they need approval form the public. Not sure it works that way. Perhaps it was in their master plan... Somebody needs to get a copy and start reading. FOIA can be used.

Remember when they were wanting to take away Camp 4( the famous climbers camp at YNP). It was stopped by a climber's coalition getting Camp 4 designated as an official historic monument. I would suggest that BC skiers think about doing something the same for any cabin/structure they hold dear and fear losing! Lot of information on the web about that.

Agree, overnights at ONP, even waterhole is a big problem due to weekday closures but still possible for a weekend overnight.

Dealing with park issues for the past 5 years I can tell you that ONP has the goal of limiting access and they definitely make plenty of decisions on a whim. The road closure to Hurricane Ridge is a perfect example of this (not the weekday closures, but the weekend closures).

There was not a string of events leading to the removal of the cabin. Reservations stopped something like 20 years ago (at least) and they weren't even made through the national park. The stove hasn't been in the cabin since I started using it 4 years ago, and I really doubt ONP had a four year long plan on removing a small cabin. Perhaps the Hantavirus threat is the reason they will give for the removal, but thinking that they actually did their due diligence and actually tested the cabin is absurd. I'll be so surprised if this was the case, Scotty, I'll actually buy you a bottle of scotch, your choice (within reason, now...).

Regarding overnight access, it's not difficult just because of the weekday closures. If you want to stay overnight on Friday, you have to first show up at the Wilderness Information Center by closing time to get a permit (this is pretty standard for a National Park, but it's just one more step). You then have to get to the gate before they close it (5pm - 6pm) which makes it difficult for the 9 to 5'ers. Even if you make it through the gate, you have to park at the Third Peak area, then hike 3 miles up to the Hurricane Ridge lot, where you can finally start your trip. Even if you make it, if the park decides to close the road after you arrive they will NOT bother to plow the road even to Third Peak, leaving you to fend for yourself just to leave. If they made decisions based on liability I doubt they would leave skiers without a plowed road.

Not trying to be argumentative, but I think a few weekend trips to Hurricane Ridge would really change your mind on the park administration.

I don't think you have to change my mind on Park Administration in general or at ONP.
I've had my share of bizarre interactions with them at Hurricane Ridge.
And no I don't think hantavirus was the cause of the cabin being demolished but I do think it is going to become an issue in the future in many NP due to recent events.
.
One time... I was going on a day tour and Ranger stopped me and asked I had signed in at the Trip book they have outside.
I said no and I didn't intend to. He told me it was mandatory...I told him it wasn't.

He told me not to go anywhere and went into the lodge.... after a while he came back out with a rule book and proceeded to read the pages to me and tell me that if I didn't sign in then he would fine me $75. Now admittedly I was not wanting to sign in but I was being polite. He was just plain nasty, right from the start.

However, even at Paradise...when you go on an overnight trip you are talking the risk that if a storm comes in the road may be blocked and unplowed for several days and you might not be able to leave immediately but admittedly it would have to be a big storm and probably only a short delay.
At ONP,  the risk is greater as if they close the road you may be there till the following weekend or face a walk all the way back to PA.

Yep, ONP is pretty messed up for convenient overnight touring in the dead of winter......mind you so are a lot of the other NP... IN WINTER.


Edit to ADD: TANGENT: ONE MORE POST AND I HIT 3000!!!!!!! YEEEEHAWWW!

agreed, does anyone have an "in" with Ski Washington? It'd be interesting to hear their take on BC skiing before starting to re-invent the wheel. ...maybe i'll shoot them an email tonight...

I have no connections; But I'm definitely willing to be part of an organized skier activism. Let me know what you find out. Again, being new to the area... I've heard that there is quite a connected community in PA of backcountry skiers. It seems like there have been efforts in the past to communicate with ONP to help improve access. It would be good to know other strategies--or ways to raise awareness.