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Mid week Hurricane Ridge closure next winter!
- Stormking
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13 years 11 months ago - 13 years 11 months ago #204124
by Stormking
Replied by Stormking on topic Re: Mid week Hurricane Ridge closure next winter!
For comparason:
Mt Baker WSDOT plowing costs range from $195,000 to $547,000 over the past 5 years. 7 road staff, 150% more snow, open 24/7. Includes spring opening to Artist's point.
Little Cottonwood Canyon (13 miles) road is plowed for $400,000 with 6 road staff, who also plow Big Cottonwood. (EIS for alternatives @ utah dot page)
Yellowstone NP plows 65 miles to Cooke City for $457,000 24/7 according to May 2011 Yellowstone Winter Use plan. Also spends $325,000 for avalanche control on Sylvan Pass for 446 snowmobile visitors. Grooming the trail costs more.
WSDOT Steven's Pass budget is $800,000 for clearing the road, including avalanche control.
Grand Teton NP plows 145 miles of road from 3:30 am to 9:30 pm with 8 plow drivers in the south section and 7 in the north. Roads open 24/7.
Anthony Lakes Highway is plowed by a private contractor using $125,000 in Oregon Snowpark funds. 7,100' elevation to base. Nine mile road open 24/7.
Clallam County said they would plow the road Monday - Thursday up to the "Slot" for $75,000.
Still working on info from some other similar roads.
Mt Baker WSDOT plowing costs range from $195,000 to $547,000 over the past 5 years. 7 road staff, 150% more snow, open 24/7. Includes spring opening to Artist's point.
Little Cottonwood Canyon (13 miles) road is plowed for $400,000 with 6 road staff, who also plow Big Cottonwood. (EIS for alternatives @ utah dot page)
Yellowstone NP plows 65 miles to Cooke City for $457,000 24/7 according to May 2011 Yellowstone Winter Use plan. Also spends $325,000 for avalanche control on Sylvan Pass for 446 snowmobile visitors. Grooming the trail costs more.
WSDOT Steven's Pass budget is $800,000 for clearing the road, including avalanche control.
Grand Teton NP plows 145 miles of road from 3:30 am to 9:30 pm with 8 plow drivers in the south section and 7 in the north. Roads open 24/7.
Anthony Lakes Highway is plowed by a private contractor using $125,000 in Oregon Snowpark funds. 7,100' elevation to base. Nine mile road open 24/7.
Clallam County said they would plow the road Monday - Thursday up to the "Slot" for $75,000.
Still working on info from some other similar roads.
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- nxnwsurf
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13 years 11 months ago #204181
by nxnwsurf
Replied by nxnwsurf on topic Re: Mid week Hurricane Ridge closure next winter!
Some contact info for the people stormking was talking about
ckidd@cityofpa.us
Barb_Maynes@nps.gov
inslee.house.gov/contact-me/email-jay
www.murray.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?p=ContactMe
cantwell.senate.gov/contact/
www.house.gov/dicks/newemail.shtml?other
ckidd@cityofpa.us
Barb_Maynes@nps.gov
inslee.house.gov/contact-me/email-jay
www.murray.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?p=ContactMe
cantwell.senate.gov/contact/
www.house.gov/dicks/newemail.shtml?other
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- Stormking
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13 years 11 months ago - 13 years 11 months ago #204184
by Stormking
Replied by Stormking on topic Re: Mid week Hurricane Ridge closure next winter!
Olympic has winter recreation a significant part of it's congressionally mandated "Purpose," more so than all other National Parks.
The purpose of Olympic National Park is "…to conserve and render available to the people, for recreational use, this outstanding mountainous country, containing numerous glaciers and perpetual snow fields."
Winter recreation predates the creation of Olympic and was one of the primary reasons for creating the Park in 1938. Rep. Mon C. Wallgren of Everett, the author of the founding legislation was of the opinion that the first addition to the park would be the Deer Park area. "He pointed out this area is particularly adaptable to winter sports and would make a 'skiing paradise.'"
Winter recreation within Olympic was reaffirmed by the construction of the all season Hurricane Ridge Parkway in 1958.
Yet, Hurricane Ridge is the only NPS road operated on a weekend only basis. Here is the winter access for other western National Parks:
Paradise, MRNP, WA: 5,400’ 177"/680” average max/total snow. Open 7 days a week. 18 miles of road from Nisqually Entrance (2023’) to Paradise. May open late due to plowing. Road opening matrix. 2.5 hours from Seattle. 60,016 Jan-April Visits.
Yellowstone NP, WY: 7,000’ 65 miles of road plowed in winter from Cooke City to North Entrance for 35,641 Jan-April visits at a cost of $457,240. $4 million for winter operations to serve 93,838 visitors. 41”/208" North entrance snow. Some of the worst winter weather in North America. Since 1997, the NPS has spent over $11 million on planning for winter use management in Yellowstone, Grand Teton, and the Parkway (2009).
Yosemite NP, CA: 7,200’, Badger Pass ski area. 99/300" snow. Wawona, Big Oak Flat, El Portal, Hetch Hetchy, and Mariposa Grove Roads open. Tioga Pass and Glacier Point huts. 90 miles of marked trails, with 25 miles of groomed track. 22,843 Badger Pass vehicles YTD April 2011.
Crater Lake NP, OR: 6,400’ 121"/504” average snow at HQ. 7.1 mile road open 7 days a week to crater rim at 7,100’. 25,236 Jan-April visits. A ten-mile snowmobile ride along the groomed North Entrance Road brings you to an amazing lake view.
Glacier NP, MT 3,200’ elevation. 21"/132" Snow at West Glacier. 11.5 miles of dead end road from West Entrance to Lake McDonald Lodge. 159 guided ski trips. $1.5 million est. annual cost for GTTS clearing and repair. 44,783 visits Jan-April
Lassen NP, CA: 6,700’ 105/480”average snow. 1 mile of road plus parking plowed by NPS. CalTrans plows 5 miles of road to the entrance from Hiway. Similar access on northeast entrance. New $8.5m Kohn Yoh Mah Nee visitor center open 7 days a week year round. Lassen tracks visits by weekend (5,793) and weekday (5,142) GMP-winterization of facilities to allow day use in winter. Interpretive Plan- four seasons. 25,683 Jan-April visits. 683 skiers.
Sequoia NP, CA: 7,200 feet. 62/244” snow @ Lodgepole. General’s Highway between SNP and KCNP 26 miles open 7 days a week. Increased funding in 1984 allowed for 7 day a week access. Road may close between Wuksachi Village (6700’) and General Grove (6500’)for plowing after storms. Pear Lake Ski Hut accessed from Wolverton Meadow. Heated restrooms at Lodgepole Campground. 22,483 Jan-April visits.
Grand Teton NP WY 6,300’ elevation. 55"/253"@ Snake River. 29 miles of dead end road from Moran to Flagg Ranch to service 12,931 visitors to south YNP. 13,023 xc skiers in GTNP
North Cascades NP, WA: Open 7 days a week. WA DOT plows Hwy 20 to MP 135. Five miles of Hwy 20 is closed for the winter before reopen on the east side. Snowmobile access. 203 visits
Rocky Mountain National Park: Park open 24/7/365 days a year. Roads to Kawuneeche Valley, Bear Lake, Wild Basin, and Hidden Valley plowed. 52" of snow at Bear Lake 2/13/12. 9,450' elevation. 10 mile road. Limited parking, smaller than Hurricane Ridge. Warming Hut. 14,837 visits past Grand Lake.
Teton Pass WY The pass parking lot holds an average of 60 vehicles. Each space turns over an average of three times, meaning several hundred skiers are visiting the pass each day.
Hurricane Ridge, with 36,863 January- April visits. It ranks 290th in overall park visits, meaning 73 park units receive less visits in a year than Hurricane Ridge in the four winter months.
For comparason, total ONP annual backcountry visits was 68,546 in 2010.
The purpose of Olympic National Park is "…to conserve and render available to the people, for recreational use, this outstanding mountainous country, containing numerous glaciers and perpetual snow fields."
Winter recreation predates the creation of Olympic and was one of the primary reasons for creating the Park in 1938. Rep. Mon C. Wallgren of Everett, the author of the founding legislation was of the opinion that the first addition to the park would be the Deer Park area. "He pointed out this area is particularly adaptable to winter sports and would make a 'skiing paradise.'"
Winter recreation within Olympic was reaffirmed by the construction of the all season Hurricane Ridge Parkway in 1958.
Yet, Hurricane Ridge is the only NPS road operated on a weekend only basis. Here is the winter access for other western National Parks:
Paradise, MRNP, WA: 5,400’ 177"/680” average max/total snow. Open 7 days a week. 18 miles of road from Nisqually Entrance (2023’) to Paradise. May open late due to plowing. Road opening matrix. 2.5 hours from Seattle. 60,016 Jan-April Visits.
Yellowstone NP, WY: 7,000’ 65 miles of road plowed in winter from Cooke City to North Entrance for 35,641 Jan-April visits at a cost of $457,240. $4 million for winter operations to serve 93,838 visitors. 41”/208" North entrance snow. Some of the worst winter weather in North America. Since 1997, the NPS has spent over $11 million on planning for winter use management in Yellowstone, Grand Teton, and the Parkway (2009).
Yosemite NP, CA: 7,200’, Badger Pass ski area. 99/300" snow. Wawona, Big Oak Flat, El Portal, Hetch Hetchy, and Mariposa Grove Roads open. Tioga Pass and Glacier Point huts. 90 miles of marked trails, with 25 miles of groomed track. 22,843 Badger Pass vehicles YTD April 2011.
Crater Lake NP, OR: 6,400’ 121"/504” average snow at HQ. 7.1 mile road open 7 days a week to crater rim at 7,100’. 25,236 Jan-April visits. A ten-mile snowmobile ride along the groomed North Entrance Road brings you to an amazing lake view.
Glacier NP, MT 3,200’ elevation. 21"/132" Snow at West Glacier. 11.5 miles of dead end road from West Entrance to Lake McDonald Lodge. 159 guided ski trips. $1.5 million est. annual cost for GTTS clearing and repair. 44,783 visits Jan-April
Lassen NP, CA: 6,700’ 105/480”average snow. 1 mile of road plus parking plowed by NPS. CalTrans plows 5 miles of road to the entrance from Hiway. Similar access on northeast entrance. New $8.5m Kohn Yoh Mah Nee visitor center open 7 days a week year round. Lassen tracks visits by weekend (5,793) and weekday (5,142) GMP-winterization of facilities to allow day use in winter. Interpretive Plan- four seasons. 25,683 Jan-April visits. 683 skiers.
Sequoia NP, CA: 7,200 feet. 62/244” snow @ Lodgepole. General’s Highway between SNP and KCNP 26 miles open 7 days a week. Increased funding in 1984 allowed for 7 day a week access. Road may close between Wuksachi Village (6700’) and General Grove (6500’)for plowing after storms. Pear Lake Ski Hut accessed from Wolverton Meadow. Heated restrooms at Lodgepole Campground. 22,483 Jan-April visits.
Grand Teton NP WY 6,300’ elevation. 55"/253"@ Snake River. 29 miles of dead end road from Moran to Flagg Ranch to service 12,931 visitors to south YNP. 13,023 xc skiers in GTNP
North Cascades NP, WA: Open 7 days a week. WA DOT plows Hwy 20 to MP 135. Five miles of Hwy 20 is closed for the winter before reopen on the east side. Snowmobile access. 203 visits
Rocky Mountain National Park: Park open 24/7/365 days a year. Roads to Kawuneeche Valley, Bear Lake, Wild Basin, and Hidden Valley plowed. 52" of snow at Bear Lake 2/13/12. 9,450' elevation. 10 mile road. Limited parking, smaller than Hurricane Ridge. Warming Hut. 14,837 visits past Grand Lake.
Teton Pass WY The pass parking lot holds an average of 60 vehicles. Each space turns over an average of three times, meaning several hundred skiers are visiting the pass each day.
Hurricane Ridge, with 36,863 January- April visits. It ranks 290th in overall park visits, meaning 73 park units receive less visits in a year than Hurricane Ridge in the four winter months.
For comparason, total ONP annual backcountry visits was 68,546 in 2010.
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- Stormking
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13 years 11 months ago - 13 years 11 months ago #204186
by Stormking
Replied by Stormking on topic Re: Mid week Hurricane Ridge closure next winter!
Many of the meetings with ONP officials were regarding promoting Hurricane Ridge. The City and County spent all the available money as part of the $75,000 match. We were told ONP couldn't legally promote the park. The twitter feed is the best they could do. We even tried to connect the park tweets to the ski area's facebook, but obviously that didn't happen.
So compare ONP twitter message today 2/23/12: 7:56: Road is snow covered up top; estimated 9:00a opening. 9:08: "The road is open" to Rocky Mountain National Parks facebook and twitter:
#BearLake 0730: H 30º, L 14º, current 15º. 12" new snow! (you want to go out and play, don't you!), 68" total on the ground. Mostly cloudy, calm winds (really!, tho a bit breezy now at HQ, 26º). Excellent snowshoe/x-c ski conditions but use caution & avoid avalanche terrain. Hidden Valley & the west side received 6" new snow. Roads are snowpacked & icy, plows are working. Snow tires or 4WD recommended. Enjoy your day! ks
Just sayin': not "everyone at the park wants to Hurricane Ridge road to stay open as much as, if not more than, you do"
So compare ONP twitter message today 2/23/12: 7:56: Road is snow covered up top; estimated 9:00a opening. 9:08: "The road is open" to Rocky Mountain National Parks facebook and twitter:
#BearLake 0730: H 30º, L 14º, current 15º. 12" new snow! (you want to go out and play, don't you!), 68" total on the ground. Mostly cloudy, calm winds (really!, tho a bit breezy now at HQ, 26º). Excellent snowshoe/x-c ski conditions but use caution & avoid avalanche terrain. Hidden Valley & the west side received 6" new snow. Roads are snowpacked & icy, plows are working. Snow tires or 4WD recommended. Enjoy your day! ks
Just sayin': not "everyone at the park wants to Hurricane Ridge road to stay open as much as, if not more than, you do"
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- watsonskipsmith
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13 years 11 months ago #204210
by watsonskipsmith
Replied by watsonskipsmith on topic Re: Mid week Hurricane Ridge closure next winter!
Thanks to all for these great data points and history! Time to get some letters and emails going!
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- Amar Andalkar
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13 years 11 months ago - 13 years 11 months ago #204221
by Amar Andalkar
Stormking, I appreciate your advocacy in favor of keeping the road open. Even though I rarely ever make it out to the Olympics in winter, I'm all in favor of the NPS maintaining winter access to our parks.
However, you don't state where the various numbers come from in your post, and their accuracy may be doubtful. Just glancing through, I immediately noticed that the snowfall numbers are obviously all screwed up.
For Paradise, Crater Lake, and Lassen, the listed values above are the average April 1 snow depths, while for Yellowstone and Sequoia, those are approximately the average annual snowfall at the given elevations -- just totally an apples and oranges comparison. For proper comparison, the average annual snowfalls are, Paradise: 680", Crater Lake Park HQ: 520", and Lassen SW Entrance: 480-500" (incomplete data there). Hurricane Ridge does not have accurate snowfall statistics available as far as I know, but average April 1 snowdepth is about 105".
Glaring errors like that (the error is in the comparison) leave all the other numbers and comparisons in severe doubt -- hopefully they are more accurate and properly comparable. Statistics are useless if they're not known to be accurate and reliable.
Replied by Amar Andalkar on topic Re: Mid week Hurricane Ridge closure next winter!
...
Paradise, MRNP, WA: 5,400’ 177” average snow. ...
Yellowstone NP, WY: 7,000’ ... 150” snow per year. ...
...
Crater Lake NP, OR: 6,400’ 121” average snow. ....
...
Lassen NP, CA: 6,700’ 105”average snow. ...
Sequoia NP, CA: 7,200 feet. 160” snow. ...
...
Stormking, I appreciate your advocacy in favor of keeping the road open. Even though I rarely ever make it out to the Olympics in winter, I'm all in favor of the NPS maintaining winter access to our parks.
However, you don't state where the various numbers come from in your post, and their accuracy may be doubtful. Just glancing through, I immediately noticed that the snowfall numbers are obviously all screwed up.
For Paradise, Crater Lake, and Lassen, the listed values above are the average April 1 snow depths, while for Yellowstone and Sequoia, those are approximately the average annual snowfall at the given elevations -- just totally an apples and oranges comparison. For proper comparison, the average annual snowfalls are, Paradise: 680", Crater Lake Park HQ: 520", and Lassen SW Entrance: 480-500" (incomplete data there). Hurricane Ridge does not have accurate snowfall statistics available as far as I know, but average April 1 snowdepth is about 105".
Glaring errors like that (the error is in the comparison) leave all the other numbers and comparisons in severe doubt -- hopefully they are more accurate and properly comparable. Statistics are useless if they're not known to be accurate and reliable.
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