TAY Atmosphere

I use that Info Center all the time -- what I've done (and maybe you've done this too) is collapse all of the older yearly categories by clicking on, say, "2009 Backcountry Trip Reports", which accomplishes this:

older trip reports could just show a link for each year that expands to the current monthly list

Only the current month and the preceding 3 months remain open for posting and updating, so you won't miss anything by collapsing the older years (March, then December through February, as of right now).

I don't want to get involved with the policy decisions as those are Marcus' to make and no longer mine (PTL!), but I would like to comment on a couple of aspects of this discussion.

A number of people have said that they think the forum software needs to be updated. Except for the ability to "ignore" the posts of specific members, I haven't seen anything posted that indicates that the forum software is lacking and my opinion is that "it ain't broke so don't try to fix it". It's true that the thumbnailing function is broken (that's an add on, not part of the software or even a SMF mod), and as Marcus said I tried to figure out why and was unable to do so. The script actually came from Tom at NWHikers, so (when it was working) it was the same as on that site, and I think it was very useful. I don't think that the most current SMF has a thumbnailing function, but not absolutely sure about that. Marcus could see if Tom would be willing to troubleshoot - I'm assuming that something changed with the TAY web host that caused the script to stop working because I didn't change anything (and in trying to troubleshoot I re-uploaded the script but same result).

Upgrading the software would be a big deal. I went through one major upgrade and it was very time consuming to make sure that everything would work, all prior posts would be retained, etc. In addition, the forum is custom integrated into the TAY site and was modified in other ways as well, so there would be additional work to redo that ( assuming that's important). It is not a matter of simply running a script and everything is done. The database structure of current and new would have to be compared to see if anything significant has changed.

I am currently an admin on a forum which uses a much newer SMF (1.1.11) and I'd say that, from a user's perspective, there isn't any significant difference compared to the TAY software. The admin section has been made somewhat more convenient to use, but hardly worth the work of an upgrade.

For those who think that new forum software is needed, I suggest that you list here what you think the current software is lacking in functionality. In most cases I think the result will be that the software is not actually lacking (as in Marcus' answer to vogtski: the function is there but users may not be aware of it).

I haven't taken detailed notes on all the ideas posted here (don't have to anymore) but clearly there are some who think that a wholesale reorganization of the TAY ownership or forum management structure is needed. If that kind of view is in the majority, I'd say those changes should be made. If not - and I suspect this is the case - then it is again the situation of trying to fix what is not broken.

There will always be some who believe that TAY is broken. When I was running the site I would ask those people two questions: if TAY is, in your opinion, so broken, why would you want to support it by spending time here, and why don't you create an alternative which you know will attract lots of users? The "marketplace" is presumably efficient: if TAY is broken and a better alternative is offered, TAY will lose membership and the alternative will gain, to the benefit of all.

Thanks for the input Charles, much appreciated. PTL indeed...

Forum Changes
Many forum layout/guideline changes have been mentioned. Dumping lift accessed trip reports, rearranging the TRs into regional categories, adding new boards for “Weather, Snow & Avalanche”, or creating a “Gear Talk” section of some kind, creating a “moderation free” zone. I can see some ups and downs to each of these, but it brings up some interesting options.

A couple of folks have mentioned Northwest Hikers recent change to their TR section. They’ve essentially made the TRs a “spray-free” zone, with this sticky at the top:

As of today we are implementing a new policy to keep Trip Reports from being hijacked by arguments, and "spray". If you have an issue with something in a Trip Report, send a PM or take it to another part of the forum and start a generic discussion. Good natured back and forth conversations are totally fine. Basically, in trip reports, we're asking you all to stop and think about what you're typing. Be nice. Be polite. If you have an honest criticism, raise it in a separate thread. It's just that simple.

I don’t spend a lot of time at NWH, but it sounds like this has been fairly effective for them, though it clearly requires both user-moderation and moderator action to keep it that way. I’m inclined to do something similar in the TRs (including Lift Accessed), Yardsale and Partners Wanted, leaving Random Tracks for the “posts that don’t fit elsewhere” and the debates/arguments.

I think the ability to question someone’s decisions is excellent and critical to our learning process, but I’ve seen a number of people commenting on how “this is no longer a trip report, perhaps it should be moved to Random Tracks” and I can see the value in that. The ability to question decisions/choices, etc without making it personal is important here -- people are posting their reports to share conditions, stories, whatever, not to become the center of a debate.

More on the layout front… I’m not inclined to dump the lift-accessed stuff at this time, as it has its place and serves a good purpose. I’ve probably paid less attention to that board than I should and it more than any other seems to have the “debate/argument” problem.

I’m not sure Regional TR divisions are necessary, but it might be an interesting experiment. How to divide them, though? I like the all-inclusive variety-pack that the current layout allows, where my rinky-dink conditions report from Kendall Stump can sit next to Jason’s multi-day Bonanza extravaganza.

Sub-sections to Random Tracks, like the Snow, Weather, Avalanche and Gear Talk – I like these ideas. It would make it easier for folks to drill right down to what they were interested in, certainly. Anyone else have thoughts on these?

The last is the “moderation free” zone. I have to admit that I’m definitely not a fan of this one, but I’m open to input on it. In my experience the presence of a board like this does tend to localize most of the bickering to one spot, but it also seems to slightly elevate the “base level” of spray in conversations elsewhere. There ends up being more “take it to the OT/Spray/Padded Room” as it bleeds over. My inclination on this one comes back to “take it elsewhere”. More on that later…

Any feedback, commentary etc, please keep it coming.

the search function could use a tuneup.  in preparing a topic, and searching for info here about Ed Rundle and Jim Mates,  Ed shows up extensively as the past tense of many words, ie  xxxxed,  the only mention of Rundle comes from Zap's and Markharf's frequent use of 'trundle', and Mates, besides in boot fitting threads, shows up primarily as 'estiMates'...    

Also, about the previous post, I've changed my mind about an 'ignore' button - not a great idea.  Feel the same about a moderation-free zone.  It's all about the vibe throughout all the corners around here - not that everything said needs to be repeatable in church..   

That just means they are everywhere and in everything we do...

Good observation, thanks. I'll add it to the list.

Re: the regional division of TRs; maybe instead of having different forums, just have a pull-down menu on the write-up page with choices such as "Washington N. Cascades" etc... that would appear next to the titles. I've read so many TRs that took me a while to figure out they were in the Sierra's or something the whole time wracking my brain trying to figure out where they are talking about (assuming the Cascades, naturally )

on another note... maybe some more heavy-handed moderation would be called for in the TR section. I don't really care what goes on in Random Tracks but there should be a minimum standard for what is cluttering up the TR section. I know this is a slippery slope but seriously...