Heli bombing near Steven's Pass

I am pretty sure that:

A) No one would pay for heli time to control avalanches to protect recreational skiers- this was about protecting those power line towers. (I am not saying that is unreasonable, just that it was not about the ski area at all.)

I don't agree with that statement.  Those powerline towers are very robust, well situated and in general well protected where they are exposed to avalanches.  If they bombed that area for that they would be bombing the whole rest of the corridor constantly and they do not.  In any case that slope doesn't discharge anywhere near a tower, the towers in that locale are actually in-bounds and up on  a hill and cannot be reached by any runnout from what was shown.

Lowell is correct about the location.

Fact is those slopes are traversed often, but they also can dump their loads pretty darn close to the in bounds on the south boundary.  That is where the Outer Limits trail is and in fact there is way more side country travel by resort skiers just outside the resort boundary that take people even closer to the runouts.  The fact is there is a very powerful runnout zone that crosses Outer Limits right at the haripin lower down.  My guess that the traverses you see high up on that slope are from more experienced travelers, however there are always some crazies from the resort.

So logic would dictate it was Stevens doing the bombing.

This is an area I had planned to tour into this winter with my son.  Early season weather and other demands have put that off, but I wanted to do a lifted serve backcountry trip that bypassed Josephine, followed the ridges just north and east and see how far we could get towards Jim Hill Mtn.  The intent would be to go as far as we could, ski the favorable slopes on route and when we decided we had enough ski down to the x-country trails and call for a lift from my wife.

We did take a nice tour of the Grace Lakes area last weekend though.  I have mixed feelings about the resort developing that area.

Alan

I think I overheard some jealousy from the patrollers on the ground that so-and-so was in the bird, but I doubt that the possibility of someone touring in from anywhere but "their" parking lots was even considered! Everyone I was around was focused on the bird and the bombs.

I would get the facts before making assumptions that the actions were cavalier. As I said in my earlier post. that slope that was charged will not affect powerlines, so how are you so sure it was the power company. How do you know that if it was that they hadn't consulted with the head of Stevens patrol (just because a few patrollers may not have been in the know doesn't mean nothing was done to figure out who might be in the area). there are multiple cat tracks up into Grace Lakes and around the back side of the that hill they bombed for reasons of US2 avi control. There are also signs warning backcountry travelers that control takes place in those areas.

Also ski patrol gets over into those areas and from a helocopter they probably had a hell of a good look as to what was going on, cleared the area ahead of time and then acted. If they did the work at 8AM it is very unlikely anyone could have accessed the slope at that time, unless they entered the day before.

Don't make assumptions that some group had ill will in these actions.

Alan

Alan

I am sorry if I was unclear on some things you assume about my comments. Please do not read any accusation of ill will into my posts.

I did not assert that the bombing was cavalier, only that the possibility of someone touring in from somewhere _other_ than the resort/Nordic center was probably not considered. What do I know, I am just some guy on the internet! I do know that it lasted until ten AM, and that they obviously knew what they were doing and I assumed they acted in good faith.

I did not notice this year, and I don't know about actual, active control, but the power company does, in FACT, use the helicopter to check out the corridor in the winter.

As to the why, every time they have done this the rumor has been that it was a joint effort with the ski area and power company. That is what I was told by patrol this year and also in the past. If my eavesdropping was accurate there was at least one patroller in the bird. I am aware that patrol is usually busy doing their good work and are not in charge of PR, budget, or administration and may have no real idea who is paying. But I still doubt that Harbor Properties laid out any cash for helicopter fuel.

I also know that one tower at least was wrecked last year , and that I have seen avy debris climb up bigger hills than the ones the towers under that slope are on (Cutthroat Pass for instance)

Facts? Neither of us has them. Both of us are too lazy, busy, or obsessed with skiing to actually call Stevens and ask, but seriously? Is helicopter based control work done anywhere else? (I really don't know, but I doubt it.)

Anyway, the ONLY interesting part of this discussion for me is whether anyone would be back there from some other starting point. I spend some time out there, and have not seen anyone tour in from elsewhere. And finally,

My guess that the traverses you see high up on that slope are from more experienced travelers, however there are always some crazies from the resort.

Those are the same groups in my personal experience. In my ill-informed, some-guy-on-the-internet opinion, the ones who traverse under that wind loaded ridge without checking it out from above are the crazies. There is some awesome terrain up there but I always struggle with how to get to it safely, and gather knowledge about it at the same time.

And no one has answered the real question I had when I started this topic- Rooster COMB, as I have always thought, or CONE, as I saw written recently?

Is helicopter based control work done anywhere else? (I really don't know, but I doubt it.)

If my memory serves me correctly, there was a controversy a few years ago when the Crystal Mountain ski patrol used a helicopter to do some control work along the ridge that forms the Mount Rainier National Park boundary. They were so successful that they started a slide (I think they call that path "Big Bertha") that ran to 410 and buried the highway and continued over the White River entrance road. The Park Service (or was it the Highway Department?) wasn't too happy about it.

C) That 95% of all the people skiing/boarding WITH beacons at ski areas are not prepared to use them, have no idea how to shovel or probe properly, and lose their friends in the woods regularly.

So how do you use a beacon properly? How do you probe properly? How do you shovel properly? In your own words.

Alan

I am sorry if I was unclear on some things you assume about my comments. Please do not read any accusation of ill will into my posts.

Jon,

No need to apologize. I do see your point. I just know where that first slide was and saw a logical reason for releasing it. Something that others replying to the thread did not seem clear about.

Partly I was reacting to the specific location of that large triggered slide, the fact that we saw it last week and the fact that that particular slope does not involve the towers. The power lines from the east with towers on that burn slope SE of the lift areas go up the hill to towers that are directly on the ski area trails and then through the small pass area. The movie is from a hill that is further to the east and does not threaten those towers.

As far as the second half of the video, I couldn't figure out where those slopes were, but I was guessing that they were in the Grace Lakes area along the Barrier. Why would they do those slopes? Well avalanche control has cat tracks that go up and through that area to access slopes just above US2, so maybe they were protecting their own people and that access route.

I have no clue who payed for the helicopter, it may have been the power company (seems like a good guess), but my guess is that they hit the mountain in the first part of the video under request of Stevens. To protect the area around Outer Limits. Having a patrol guy in the chopper while they do their work so close to a populated recreation area makes good sense. Elsewhere it is probably unnecessary.

On the other hand, to be cynical, maybe they were working in necessary areas and just for the heck of it they dropped the charge for the fun of it. Seems improbable with so many people observing.

Regarding backcountry users in the area. My son and I came across signs along the barrier and also in areas of Grace Lakes with clear warnings about artillery fire in the area. The tanks fire into the barrier and I think they actually set off that huge slide last year that buried the highway for several days last year. This is essentially the same area as where people do the descent from Cowboy Mt. to the hairpin. I have photos of the signs and I will post some when I get the chance. The most threatening sign stated that as a backcountry traveler, you are about to enter an avalanche control area which affect US2. If you release a slide that impacts the Highway or causes damages, etc. you will be financially responsible.

I wonder if they have signs along the power line right of way?

Alan