Steep: Glorifying extreme risk taking?

Hmmm. Either Andrew was disguised as a Harvard law professor who wanted to legitimize online poker at 11:30, or I saw a different segment. What did Colbert have to say?

McLean clip

Not much of an interview, pretty brief, McLean could not get more than a serious thought in edgewise with usual Colbert thick sarcasm… funny but not too insightful.  See Steep to get more insight from Andrew, he’s the real thing (as far as ski mountaineering goes).
Did have a good clip of the impressive avy from Steep film that almost took McLean’s team for a ride.

Wow, glad andrew and friends came out of that avi alright. That's scary footage.

Greg L- sorry if you were not able to see it, I only looked ahead on the tv guide to see when it was being replayed and here in Seattle that was supposed to be at 11:30. Sorry if I mis-informed you but nice of Cesaro to post the interview.

Chris

My take on the stoke vs info question relates to what I come to this site for: Information.

In the early and late season, I want to know what approach conditions and snow coverage are like. How far can I drive in? Is there enough snow to be worth the trip? A TR with an accurate verbal description of approach conditions and some photos of the "stoke zone" (or part of the mountain that draws you for making turns) give this info clearly.

In mid season (late Dec through early April) I am looking for snow pack stability information and skiability. Even though a TR with pit information or other test info may not apply directly to a route or time I choose for my own trip, the information adds data points to my accumulated seasonal snowpack knowledge and "snow sense." A few "stoke" photos gives me instant information about the skiablity (as in conditions are only as good as the last six inches) which can determine where to plan a tour and how much terrain I can expect to be able to cover. And of course with the ever growing ranks of backcountry skiers out there, TRs give me an idea of what has already been skied and where I might find fresh tracks...

The rest of the chatty stuff about friends, dogs, not having to work, social events in the back country, etc. are just so much noise I have to weed through. That being said, I tolerate it as a price of getting people to post, because with out them there would be no information with which to plan or fantasize. I just wish more people would provide the basics along with the personal, as it is getting noisier this season...

I agree with Squakmtn. And for the same reasons. I am looking for information. No one wants to spend several hours plodding into a location to find it all skied out, or find poor or dangerous ski conditions. I really don’t care how your dog did, or what you had for dinner. Where, approximately, did you go? What has been skied? What was the access like? What were the snow conditions? These are the same questions that you and your friends ask when planning a ski trip. This is the information that should be posted in “Trip Reports”

It seems like there are many posters who appear to be budding authors and semi pro motion picture directors. It is fine and fun to share your experience, but I would suggest that these experiences be placed on a new, separate link entitled something like “MY Fun Day” or “Essays from the Backcountry” Save the “Trip Reports” for specific information.

Steep. Saw it; liked it - better than expected. Go if it calls you.

My wife and I saw the film and liked. We thought it was well done and worth seeing. A bit of glorification but it is a tough thing to avoid.

My wife and I lived in LaGrave last year. Needless to say, with Doug and Chad's death, there was a lot of talk about risk taking and death. It was interesting to hear the difference between the guide's point of view and the wife of the guide's point of view. For the most part the guides accept that death is part of the "game". They don't have a death wish but they accept it could happen and put themselves in situations where if they fall they die. From what we have seen, the level of risk a guide is willing to take makes the life of a guide's wife stressful at times.

This aspect of the skiers featured in the film was not explored much in the film. It would have been interesting if they did.

I agree with Squakmtn. And for the same reasons. I am looking for information. No one wants to spend several hours plodding into a location to find it all skied out, or find poor or dangerous ski conditions. [snip] What has been skied? What was the access like? What were the snow conditions? These are the same questions that you and your friends ask when planning a ski trip. This is the information that should be posted in “Trip Reports”

I don't mean to sound like a retro-grouch, but is some ways, isn't this what BC skiing is all about? Sometime the adventure in hiking for 4 hours in drizzle to find garbage snow *is* the whole point. IMHO, having a perfect TR to plan the perfect trip strikes me as missing out on some of what makes BC skiing so much more rewarding than lift-served.
"It doesn't have to be fun, to be fun."
That said, I have also been trying to get someone to climb a dirty ramp route in Squamish with me for years, so maybe I am just a little warped.

"Sometime the adventure in hiking for 4 hours in drizzle to find garbage snow *is* the whole point."

I used to do that too when I was young and dumb. With age comes wisdom, and I have found more fun things to do.

Sky brought this up to me, the idea that this site is about conditions. What I post, though, once every few months are reports that aren't about conditions, but more about my thrill of going to amazing places. It's what excites me and I enjoy sharing it. More importantly, I like sharing it here, because I know many of you and know that you guys can relate. 

I agree with Squakmtn.  And for the same reasons. I am looking for information. No one wants to spend several hours plodding into a location to find it all skied out, or find poor or dangerous ski conditions.

Thanks Bryan and Jason for your excellent comments, since I agree completely!   
In return for the helpful information you get from TAY, thanks for returning the favor by posting your timely condition observations without worry of someone "stealing your stash."   It helps us  working stiffs optimize the few days we get to ski relative to the retirees and trustafarians.  Also, big thanks to Charles for building the site, enhancing it, de-spamming it, and keeping it civil.  Perhaps moderating TAY gives him ideas for child management duties, too! 

Back to Steep:  it was fun to see the development of steep skiing, hear the pleasure from the Italian "little superman" and Plake, who thanks skiing for every $ he ever earned.   Also great to see someone get other folks to pay for his fun skiing in Valdez, and a remote corners of the world explorer with his sat phone.  Helped me think of some of my favorite days, and glad that I am not yet bored with gentler terrain, no need to ski "you fall, you die" slopes yet!   Also was reminded of a steep skier who needs not venture out of our state, he continues to find enough local lines to keep himself entertained.

I haven't seen the movie yet, but intend to rent the DVD when it's out. The trailer looks good, especially the historical perspective interviewing the old mountaineers (my generation). The cliff jumping / parachuting is fun to watch, but pure trickery as far as I'm concerned - I guess it sells though and they had to pay for the film.

This brings up an ongoing discussion/argument I have with a younger partner (like George & Jerry bantering about Superman vs Batman on Seinfeld). He buys all the TGR movies, reads Powder religiously, and knows the names of all the hot young skiers. Our argument is over who is better - the young guns who chopper in, jump cliffs, and blast the Chugach faces in 10 turns vs traditional ski mountaineers who climb a remote/high peak and ski a 1st descent. I think they are all great athletes, the movie stars may be quicker on their feet (I do like watching the videos I borrow from him), but I say the mountaineers are the real deal when you factor in the overall effort, commitment, and wide range of skills needed. I also like to point out that Europeans have been putting us to shame in the big mountain extreme skiing realm (and alpine climbing for that mater) for many years and continue to set the bar pretty high. I haven't heard about many of the TGR stars going over there and repeating the hardest big mountain descents.

It's all driving home BS for me though. I just want to get some exercise, have fun with my friends, ski powder, look at some beautiful scenery, and soak in the hot-tub afterwards.

"I just want to get some exercise, have fun with my friends, ski powder, look at some beautiful scenery, and soak in the hot-tub afterwards."

Freakin' Brilliant!!! My take on it exactly!!!


"The smiles and the bottle after a fantastic day at Fairy Meadows"

Interesting interview in the January 2008 issue of Backcountry (p. 34):

Beacons, Burials, Boneheads
Avy Specialist Niko Weiss Sounds Off
By Ryan Stuart

[...clip...]

Q: We need to change our mindset then?

A: Yes, but we also have to change the way the message is delivered. The Canadian Avalanche Association did a social behavior study with their online avy course. They found that a huge number of respondents thought it was acceptable to be injured or killed as a result of their backcountry behavior. That tells us the sport is changing, and more and more people expect they are going to get caught in a slide.

Q: Why is that?

A: It's a result of the sensationalization of backcountry skiing by the media. The gear is so much better and so much better marketed. Movies make avy terrain look like no big deal. Gear manufacturers spend hundreds of millions on promoting extreme mountain sports in avy terrain. But how much is being spent on the safety side? A million maybe. The safety side is not keeping up. The manufacturers are not doing their part. Companies like Teton Gravity Research are the ones making it worse, and they're the ones that can make it better.

Q: How so?

A: Safety will only be successful if it is part of the culture. The only way you're going to influence people is if you get their idols to present the message. You get athletes to do a documentary of all the preparation and training they do--the skills they have--and you get them to tell about their near misses. You put it all together and make it part of the movie. But you can't call it a safety video. No one will watch a safety video.

[...clip...]

Interesting interview in the January 2008 issue of Backcountry (p. 34):

And a good job Steep did of reminding the viewer of the dangers, eh?

The avi footage in Iceland is sobering, especially given that it did not seem to be on an extremely steep slope.  Also the experienced guy cartwheeling down the run in Alaska after missing his first or second turn.

Here's another educational video:   revver.com/video/310519/a-dozen-more-turns/  for those who have not seen it yet.

The contrast between my own personal take on the movie and what's expressed in the reviews (there are a bunch) linked from here:
movies.go.com/steep/d914981/documentary

are pretty striking. It seems most reviewers have trouble empathizing with the experience of being in wild places and focus exclusively on the risks associated with those who push the envelope. I don't presently intend to ski lines as committing as many of those shown, but I can understand why, sans adrenaline, you'd want to.

STEEP is showing at the crest "cheap" theater up here in Shoreline if anybody else could not justify 9.75 to see it at the biggie theater. I suppose its worth 3 bucks, eh?

well the crest got my 3 bux...good diversion...reminded me of the big wave surfing film that stacy peralta made "riding giants"

The contrast between my own personal take on the movie and what's expressed in the reviews (there are a bunch) linked from here:

movies.go.com/steep/d914981/documentary

are pretty striking. It seems most reviewers have trouble empathizing with the experience of being in wild places and focus exclusively on the risks associated with those who push the envelope. I don't presently intend to ski lines as committing as many of those shown, but I can understand why, sans adrenaline, you'd want to.

I don't think the reviewers have trouble empathizing with the experience of being in wild places. What they have trouble with--and what the film fails to clarify for them--is why it is necessary to court danger for its own sake to enjoy those places. "Steep" is about a branch of skiing that is distinguished primarily by the risk involved. There are other ways to experience wild places on skis that don't entail that level of risk. The reviewers know this. The common theme in the reviews is that "Steep" fails to explain why it is so great to risk your life for fun.

As Dave White writes in his review, most of the skiers interviewed in the film suggest that until you've risked death on top of a mountain, you haven't truly lived. That notion is simply offensive.

^^ I just talked with someone who had that exact same impression last night.

That's much different than the impression I had. Maybe the delivery was unfortunate. Maybe it's just a cheap high. But there's a big difference, to me, between admiring something and experiencing it in an intimate fashion. I'll spare everyone the sexual analogies that are always so hard for me to resist.

Why the need to get offended by what some adrenaline-addled junky says, though? If they're so obviously off base, then there shouldn't be much harm in these loquacious lunatics, should there?

Shouldn't we be just as offended by peoples of various religions who insist that we're headed to hell?

Maybe the delivery was unfortunate.

[...]

Why the need to get offended by what some adrenaline-addled junky says, though?  If they're so obviously off base, then there shouldn't be much harm in these loquacious lunatics, should there?

The delivery is key. If the junky implies that everybody but him is living an unfulfilling life, it is offensive. If on the other hand, the junky says that for him, and him alone, the only way to find fulfillment is to risk it all, it is not offensive. In this case, instead of being offended, the audience is likely to feel some mixture of pity, titillation and/or revulsion.

the directors of Steep chat about why make the film.

Steep is now available on Netflix. I watched it last night and thought it was great, my wife agreed. I thought they spent too much time on the chopper/lift served stuff, shortchanging true ski mountaineering, but I guess it is easier to shoot (and the footage is beautiful). We also thought it focused on the risk a bit too much, but that also makes you think (about the risks we all take in the mountains even on non-extreme days). I was disappointed they didn't even mention any Himalayan descents, the director said he wasn't happy with the available footage he saw, but I think they should have used some stills and at least mentioned some of the 8,000 m routes if they wanted to give a better overview of the sport.

I got an email announcing that Steep was available on DVD... followed the link and got an order page offering the disk for about $27.

Then I went to the Steep site at:
www.sonyclassics.com/steep/

and they had DVD  links to Amazon selling for about $23 and used ones for $18...
www.amazon.com/dp/B0012CJQZK/

and Blueray for about $27:
www.amazon.com/dp/B0012CQSWE