11-2010 Alpental Chair 2 - National Monument or ?

For the people,
I propose that we discuss and reach some kind of consensus on what to do with Chair-2 at the Alpental Ski Area, right here in this forum, and then make a plan to create dialogue with CNL Real Estate (concern), The USDA-FS and the people, with some kind of very definite recommendation, and then take action.
I feel that we have to start NOW, long before they make a (legal) plan to replace our beloved chair-2 which as you can tell by now, I am not in favor of (replacing) for many reasons, but I am very open to your opinions and comments, thus, this forum.
I hope this forum can create a base knowledge and general direction on how to care for this classic Northwest Chair-lift.
As of today 11-3-2010, I will suggest that we declare/nominate Chair-2 at Alpental, a NATIONAL MONUMENT which would keep CNL (Properties) from EVER replacing it and it would by law, MAKE THEM HAVE to take care of it for future generations!
The only way to have any influence about this is to be years ahead of the decision making process concerning OUR very important NW ski history and infrastructure that we have entrusted to these...corporations through the USDA-Forest Service. My observation is that the track record of these well meaning agency's is poor and so we must make sure as good citizen's, that we help oversee these important choices we make about sensitive public lands.
ALSO the people who never ski, may not understand how WE feel and this forum could actually have major influence on the Chair-2 question and at the least, be a decent resource to educate people on this issue.
Alpental and other ski area's are OUR PUBLIC LANDS and I recommend we take responsibility for these issue's before we are (further) stripped of our culture and birth-right.
OF course, any actual change has (only) to do with the RULE OF LAW which hopefully is the basis but not limited to, this forum.
I believe conserving our precious ski culture certainly includes such choice items like Chair-2 at Alpental, named, The Edelwiess Chair, also known as Chair 17 at Alpental.

Take sort of a ride on Chair-2 at Alpental here:
www.youtube.com/user/Schluct#p/u/5/QBX-xKCc58U

Alpine Lakes Wilderness Area document:
www.freealpental.org/94-357.pdf

Alpental History


PDF version of the MDP for the Summit At Snoqualmie:
www.fs.fed.us/r6/mbs/projects/summit-at-...RecordOfDecision.pdf

FEIS for The-Summit-At-Snoqualmie:
www.fs.fed.us/r6/mbs/projects/summit-at-snoqualmie/

Related thread on TAY:
www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboardi...ex.php?topic=14650.0

Here is a nice slideshow of the Alpental back-country and Chair-2 purely for entertainment only.
Courtesy of the Alpental Secret Society:
www.youtube.com/user/Schluct#p/u/8/kk1LdhObwLk

"Until we lose ourselves there is no hope of finding ourselves."
Henry Miller


What do YOU think?
BillyTheMountain

I would like to preserve the chair #2 as well and make a swing out of it. But I will not use that duckbill cable ejection device they use to mount it.

I'm all for leaving the runs the way they are but chairs, think Hyak for a minute.........are chairs suppose to go backwards? Request a chair with similar capacity. I believe/heard 5th person(or will soon be set straight by someone) that CH6 at Crystal will be replaced with a triple of similar capacity as the double to get heavier chairs so they hit towers less and fall off less. I would be stoked if they did because that chair is always the first down if the winds come up.

BTW chair 2 should be a quad as that line sucks.

BTW chair 2 should be a quad as that line sucks.

As much as I hate fighting the large lines on 2, I disagree. A quad would move the crowd to the top where there just isn't room for that many more people. Simliar to what occurred when chair one was replaced with the HSQ- lines on 1 were atrocious but kept the line on 2 manageable.

None of the 5 versions of the summit master plan I saw, including the one that was approved, included updating chair 2 with anything other than another double.

Not my home hill and I don't understand all the issues as a result.
However the replacement of the famous single chair ( by a new SINGLE chair) at Mad River Glen seems to have some parallels to this discussion.
As I understand it, the said chair was so iconic that despite the obvious capacity problems they decided to replace it with a more modern single chair that was actually MORE expensive than putting in a double as it had to be manufactured custom..... there not being a huge demand for new SINGLE chairs.
They then sold the old chairs and raised $270,000 to help pay the new chairs $1.5 million cost.

Alpental is an iconic ski area.
SAFETY should be the primary decision regarding Chair 2 replacement.
After that the decision is either to retain Alpental's iconic status or expand capacity( better service but "character "is lost)
Lot of info on the webz regarding Mad River Glen Single Chair and here's a snippet.
www.usatoday.com/travel/destinations/ski...iver-glen-lift_N.htm

Extend it to the SW corner of lot 4 so I can drink more while waiting in the line.

Without reworking and making better exit area around the unloading area I would think that feasibility of anything more than a 2 pack would be unreasonable.
I agree with Matt that a hi-speed 4 pack would be sweet, but it may turn into to much of a cluster at the top.

My thought and vote would go to...
IMO preserving a 2 pack chair just for old time sake is a little antiquated thinking. Especially with inevitable growth. I think they should put 8pac gangalas from the base to the top going right over the shot cliffs. Terminating at a small lodge. With a snack shack, sundeck at the top and BBQ/beer in the Spring. Now that would be impressive. Use it for summer tourists too. Also, it may help to get the avy work done a little sooner and maybe have less time for their private club skiing. They could stop the gondolas over the cliff and drop charges. OK maybe dreaming there. Would not have to worry about getting soaked riding through the showers at lower elevations. Take the lift towers off of two and make a ski hill that you can ski straight down instead of having to detour around tower 11 and Rollen.
Think progressive rather than regressive.
If money is going to be budgeted to the cause go all out.